Androsace globifera Duby, Prodr. 8: 48 1844. (syn: Primula globifera (Duby) Kuntze (ambiguous synonym);  Primula globifera (Duby) S.S.R. Bennet & M.B. Raizada (ambiguous synonym));
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SW-Tibet, Bhutan, Sikkim, Nepal, India (Indian Punjab, Assam, etc.), Pakistani Kashmir (Nanga Parbat, Gilgit) as per Catalogue of Life;
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VoF Week :: DV :: 03 AUG 12 – 0241 :: Primula garhwalica syn. Androsace garhwalica along Hemakund – Ghangaria trail: Primula garhwalica (Balodi & S.Singh) K.K.Khanna & An.Kumar … (family: Cyperaceae)
syn. Androsace garhwalica Balodi & S.Singh

3 AUG 12
Hemakund – Ghangaria trailabout 12200 ft


Please check my mucronifolia. I assume mine to be correct.


Yes dear … – will go with your ID. The plants are ditto.
Many thanks for the correction.


I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather than a Primula.
I am not familiar with this species. Clearly it has been named by Indian botanists. Could someone tell me the publication this species was described in and how it is distinguished from related species?

See the other posting re: Androsace mucronifolia (or not as the case).


Thanks … for validating this post; will revise my notes at flickr, when we reach to any conclusion.


Thanks, …,
To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the following images (though I may or may not be correct):

Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.

The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly – though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.).  They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).
The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants – to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist.  They rely on the name something arrived at.
The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified).  For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) – I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.
Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.
Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.
As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF – this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia It might be A.globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like ‘Flowers of Himalaya’ say short-stalked or stalkless.  It is the most likely candidate.
There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.
Interestingly, the image of A.globifera in ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’ shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in ‘Portraits of Himalayan Flowers’ (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his ‘Himalayan Plants Illustrated’.
As to Androsace garwhalicum. I have looked through the notes provided when this species was described in 1988. I note the NEW species was ‘discovered’ in the BSD herbarium, NOT in the wild.  Their description and the accompanying line drawings.  I do not know who did the line drawings but they do not appear to have been acknowledged.  Anyhow, C.Bhattacharya made the collection in Hemkund @ 4200m (though do not give a date) with the type in Calcutta herbarium.
I have to say the line drawing is a bit confusing as it appears to show minute flowers a fraction of the length of the leaves, yet in the description it states the petal lobes are 5.5mm long (whilst the leaves are 2.5-5mm). Clearly a mistake. Ever more extraordinary is the claim that the petals are pale blue.  I don’t know of too many Androsaces with blue flowers!  But I suspect I have the explanation and it stems from a problem encountered by those examining dried specimens in herbaria – the colour of dried flowers if often different to fresh ones.  I am very surprised the authors of this new species did not realise this (or the senior botanist who went through the manuscript).  Anyhow, as Professor Richards says, petiolarid flowers which are pink when fresh dry blue….. Perhaps the same has happened here?   Maybe the blue flowers contributed to the authors imaging the specimen was a Primula – hence but incorrectly, in my mind, Primula garhwalicum
It would be helpful if a group member with access to BSD, DD or CAL herbaria, could take good close-ups of the specimens of Androsace garwhalicum and post them on this site, so we have these for reference purposes.

As the authors only gave a key to distinguish A.garwhalicum from A.selago and this species is not found in Uttarakhand, I would like to be clearer how to distinguish it from A.globifera, which is known from the region and for which it presumably was mistaken for in the past?


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Androsace mucronifolia Watt in J. Linn. Soc. 18:381. t. xiv B. 1882.
Family: Primulaceae
Distribution: E. Afghanistan, N.W. Himalaya, W. Tibet, W. China

Current pic taken on way to Hem Kunt Sahib.


Very beautiful catch of the Androsace flowers


I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather than a Primula.
I can say with confidence that it is not Androsace mucronifoliain fact the plant from VOF is not remotely similar to A.mucronifolia.  This species is only recorded from Aghanistan to Kashmir, so would not be expected in VOF anyhow.

The image does seem to match the posting named as Androsace garhwalica (Primula garhwalica). I am not familiar with this species.  Clearly it has been named by Indian botanists. Could someone tell me the publication this species was described in and how it is distinguished from related species?


See more discussions in another thread at VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib 


… has kindly sent me the description of Androsace garwhalicum. The photos taken in the VoF are definitely not A.mucronifolia.
We are currently checking through Androsaces recorded from India.  There are quite a number of taxa where confusion/uncertainty exists. I am in agreement with Dr Nasir in ‘Primulaceae’ (Flora of Pakistan) that past records for this A.globifera in “the Punjab” are misidentifications. One of the specimens seems to be
Androsace baltistanica whilst the other is likely to prove to be.  I am currently attempting to familiarise myself with the latter species and how it is distinguished from similar species in Ladakh.  A.baltistanica was not know to Stewart in his ‘Annotated Catalogue…’
I do not understand on what basis Androsace garwhalicum has become a Primula!  Is there DNA or other non-morphological evidence to support this new combination?  It looks like an Androsace to me…..
I am attempting to familiarise myself with this species and how to distinguish it from similar species and work out which species it is likely to have been mistaken for in the past.  In the description … sent there is a key distinguishing it from A.selagini (which I have not heard of) which is apparently another new name (though no author is given) for A.selago Hook.f. & Thoms.
Since A.selago is not recorded for Uttarakhand or indeed Nepal though is found in Bhutan, Sikkim & Chumbi, it would have been helpful if the authors had told us how to distinguish this new species from those already recorded from the region such as A.globifera, which at present I think it the most likely species it was mistaken for in the past.  Given the challenges this genus present and lack of good reference descriptions such information would have been useful for all those concerned.
According to ‘Flora of Bhutan’ (Vol 2 Part 2, 1999) Grierson & Long felt that A.selago and A.tapete are variable species which appear to intergrade.  Further research is needed on their distinction.  Treatment as varieties may be more appropriate.
Please can group members look out for an make a special effort to photograph Androsaces in the years to come both from higher and lower altitudes as knowing where (geographically-speaking) at what altitude and in which habitats, each species is found, represents meaningful information – as well as helping work out abundance (or not).  Good close-ups of flowers (incl. petals & sepals) along with foliage will contribute towards us being able to distinguish between similar species with greater certainty.

I personally, would be particularly pleased to view good close-ups of Androsaces from Ladakh to help me become clearer about the differences between A.baltistanica, A.robusta and A.muscoidea in that region. I am reasonably clear about A.mucronifolia, A.sempervivoides, A.septentrionalis & A.thomsonii which are also recorded from Ladakh.


Thanks, … To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the following images (though I may or may not be correct):

Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.

The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly – though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.).  They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).
The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants – to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist.  They rely on the name something arrived at.
The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified).  For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) – I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.
Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.
Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.
As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF – this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia It might be A.globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like ‘Flowers of Himalaya’ say short-stalked or stalkless.  It is the most likely candidate.
There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.

Interestingly, the image of A.globifera in ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’ shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in ‘Portraits of Himalayan Flowers’ (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his ‘Himalayan Plants Illustrated’.



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VOF Week: : Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib: This herb was seen on the boulders. en-route

I had earlier identified this as Androsace garhwalicum (Ref: book by Keshava Murthy). After seeing the post by … of similar plant i feel this plant could also be Androsace mucronifolia?
Family: Primulaceae.


Thanks … for another interesting upload.


just like some totally unrelated plants as in yesterday today and tomorrow… dont know the binomial…. this plant too seems to have flowers that are changing colors…
is it or is it just my eye playing tricks?


Thanks …, … for appreciating this upload. I had seen few plants including some Androsace sp, Geranium sp., Boraginaceae sp with different colours – some fading.
In fact i was bit late to photograph this. … has photographed this plant almost one week ahead of me and he got the plant in full bloom.


Yes … now that I looked at … post – there too is the same fading to white though I agree It was a bit younger more jubilant looking clump at that point in time…
so this color fading must a be a characteristic…


This is definitely not Androsace mucronifolia which is not recorded East of Kashmir. I do not know what Androsace garwhalicum is supposed to look like or how it is distinguished from related Androsaces.  Can anyone in this group tell me and give the full reference for the publication of this species?
These images look close to those shown on the FOI site named incorrectly as Androsace mucronifolia. See: http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Needle-Tipped%20Rock%20Jasmine.html

What about Androsace globifera?


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This seems interesting!
Androsace mucronifolia Watt is not known in Uttarakhand, at least not listed in Uniyal et al. 2007 [(Flowering Plants of Uttarakhand (A Checklist)].
Images shown here and another upload by … show the characters given by Nasir 1984 (FoPakistan) except that the flowers are invariably solitary on peduncles. Nasir have mentioned a varietal name A.mucronifolia var. uniflora Kunth under synonyms which suggests that the species may have solitary flower.
The species A. garhwalicum described by Bipin Balodi and Surendra Singh (in Bull. Bot. Surv. India 30(1-4). 1988) from Hemkund area (India, UP, Chamoli Garhwal, Hemkund, 4200m, U.C. Bhattacharyya 29497 A(Holo), B (Iso) at CAL and BSD) also has solitary flower of 6mm across on 1cm long scape. It has dimorphic oblong-lanceolate or lanceolate leaves with lower leaves smaller and upper leaves larger. It is differentiated from East Himalayan A.selago Hook.f. et Thomson ex Klatt which is (after seeing specimen in Herbcat) is a compact cushion forming species and image is in FoC.
A. globifera and A. delavayi are the other solitary flowered species in Uttarakhand and I have seen A. delavayi in field which it is not. Even A.globifera has more compact and silvery cushions ruling out the possibility.
Some expert may help to resolve the ID with certainty.
Protologue of A.garhwalicum is attached here.


Many thanks for your informative comments and sending the description of A.garwhalicum which as I stated is new to me.
There appear to be no records (to-date) for this species from the NW Himalaya.
I shall look into this further.
I can assure you that the specimens photographed in the VOF do not come close to Androsace mucronifolia. Do you have available a copy of ‘Primulaceae’ (Flora Pakistan No. 157) which has a detailed description and line drawings of this species?  The foliage and habit of the two species are very different.
I got to know A.mucronifolia in Kashmir in the 1980s but not seen it elsewhere. The images taken by my expedition members of this species were not in close-up.  I shall see if I can locate them and then send.
I find it frustrating that so many species are described in India which only cover the differences to a species the author(s) say is the most closely related, even when that species occurs some distance away. It is informative to know what the newly described species may have been mistaken for in the past i.e. species known to occur in the region.
Do you think A.garwhalicum was mistaken for A.globifera in the past? As Androsace selago is not even recorded for Nepal let alone
what is now Uttarakhand, then it cannot have been mistaken for this in the past.  I would suggest that mostly, a species which is described to be “new to science” has been either collected as herbarium specimen before but misidentified or passed by in the field and assumed to be an existing species. Occasionally the ‘new’ species has genuinely not been noticed previously, especially in locations which have not been botanised in much previously.
I e.g. walked past a colony of Meconopsis latifolia in Kashmir several times, assuming was just another form of Meconopsis aculeata amongst the rocks/boulders – I had seen the latter species many times there.  We all do this at times.
Furthermore, what about Androsace tapete, which is recorded from Nepal incl. West Nepal which borders Uttarakhand.  Grierson & Long (Flora of Bhutan Vol 2 Part II) say that A.selago and A.tapete are variable species which appear to intergrade.  Further research is needed on their distinction.  Treatment as varieties may be more appropriate.  IF these species are so close, why did not Balodi & Singh not comment about how to differentiate A.garwhalicum from A.tapete – which is found geographically nearer than A.selago.
The images on the ANDROSACE website suggest A.selago and A.tapete are distinct. I am not familiar with Androsace selagini.  Do you know where this species name comes from?
Also, do you know what Primula mucronifolia is or why it is considered a Primula at all?  See: efi thread. These images seem to match the others from VOF.
The correct spelling of the name is A.garwhalicum not A.garwhalica
I cannot see the leaves closely in the photos but the shape of the tips does not appear to match those drawn in the description of A.garwhalicum you sent – would you not agree?

Also, did the British mountaineers who visited the VOF in the 1930s miss what is now A.garwhalicum? As A.globifera is in their Supplementary list it either means that both species are found in VOF or A.garwhalicum was mistaken for this. It would be interesting to inspect the pressed specimens of what was named as A.globifera. However, the list contains species which were observed and not collected, so perhaps A.globifera was one of these?  this species is not described in the text of the book. The only other Androsaces recorded from VOF (and Upper Garwhal) in the book ‘The Valley of Flowers’ are: A.rotundifolia (which it could not have been mistaken for), A.primuloides (which would now be within A.sarmentosa and would not have been mistaken for this), A. poissonii (now A.delavayii and would not be mistaken for this), finally A.chamaejasme var. uniflora (now A.muscoidea and unlikely to have been mistaken for this).


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Thank you … for your comments and questions.
Since you have seen A.mucronifolia I agree with your diagnosis that the plant in discussion is NOT A. mucronifolia. Flowers are umbellate in A.mucronifolia which is not visible in Hemkund specimens.
Yes I have a hard copy of Y.J. Nasir’s (1984) Primulaceae as included in Flora of Pakistan, which has not mentioned A. globifera in sufficient details (no description or diagram) due to which we are not able to differentiate these two species.
I cannot comment on the new species described and the comparison of new species with geographically distant species by Indian Taxonomists. The authors were at BDS which is a herbarium housing more than 120000 specimens all collected from Western Himalaya and adjacent plains. I suppose, the authors must had seen A. globifera which was a well known species at that time i.e. 1988. A. globifera was included in Flora of Chamoli District published in 1984 and authored by B.D. Naithani from the same center (Dehradun) of Botanical Survey of India and another herbarium of Forest Research Institute at Dehradun (DD) house specimens collected from all parts of the Himalaya, adjacent countries and Europe. It is easily accessible and the authors, I suppose, must had seen all specimens of Androsace housed in DD too.
Many of the alpine plants in the Western Himalaya are still being identified superficially by the botanist based on Flowers of the Himalaya (Polunin & Stainton 1984) and few botanists have seen its Supplement by Stainton (1988). A. globifera and A. mucronifolia both are illustrated in Flowers of the Himalaya and look similar, at least in the copy which I have, may be due to poor colour printing. This seems to me the reason for this identification as A. mucronifolia. As we all always reiterate identifying plants based on one picture (as based on Flowers of the Himalaya) is always risky particularly when there are many morphologically similar species growing in the area; we all know this excellent document produced by Oleg Pollunin & Adam Stainton is not a complete account. Such cases cannot be resolved without a herbarium study.
I agree with you that the species is an Androsace and have no such characters to be considered as Primula at all. Two Indian taxonomists from DD made this new combination for a reason not known to me.
I also have the accounts of Frank Smythe (Kamet Conquered and Valley of Flowers) and I have browsed them but cannot say which species they saw or whether their identifications were correct or not. But it is sure that they must have seen A.globifera and this species in discussion though they may have considered both same species.
Following species of Androsace are known from Uttarakhand:

A. chamaejasme Host

A. delavayi Franch.

A. fragilis Duthie ex Prain

A. garhwalicum Balodi & S.Singh

A. geranifolia Watt.

A. globifera Duby

A. lanuginosa Wallich

A. primuloides (Hook.f.) Duby

A. rotundifolia Hardw.

A. umbellata (Lour.) Merr.

A. sarmentosa Wallich

A. villosa L.

Among these only A. delavayi, A. garhwalicum, A. globifera are having solitary flower per rosette. A. delavayi I have seen and have light yellow flowers which can be discarded for this case.

I have not seen or collected A. garhwalicum so can’t say.

The species considered as A. globifera by me is attached here (Androsace globifera_DSR) and it was shot in Sunderdhunga valley of Kumaon region. Kumaon region is closer to West Nepal then to Himachal Pradesh. In addition I am also attaching two more images (Androsace-1 and Androsace-2) for your comments on the ID. Androsace-1 was photographed at an elevation of 4800m in Chamoli district of Garhwal in first week of September and it was close to a ridge top on steep slope. Androsace-2 was photographed at an elevation of 3400 m in a glaciated valley near Badrinath in Chamoli district of Garhwal in September and it was found on exposed moderate slope. 

Attachments (3)


Thanks, … To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the following images (though I may or may not be correct):

Yes I had sent the image to some friends and … says this should be A. globifera.

May be … can through some light on this.


Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further.
The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly – though it is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, Geranium etc.).  They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is different to what they already have (or think they have).
The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to identify plants – to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other resources exist.  They rely on the name something arrived at.
The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are misidentified).  For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another complication in cultivation) – I have checked plants from nurseries and sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.
Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be any different.
Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.
As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF – this, as I have already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia It might be A.globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like ‘Flowers of Himalaya’ say short-stalked or stalkless.  It is the most likely candidate.
There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species.
Interestingly, the image of A.globifera in ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’ shows flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this species in ‘Portraits of Himalayan Flowers’ (T.Yoshida), along with one of the images in his ‘Himalayan Plants Illustrated’.

I shall be commented about Androsace garwhalicum in another response.


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Androsace-2 near Badrinath in Chamoli district of Garhwal : 5 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (1)

Androsace-2 was photographed at an elevation of 3400 m in a glaciated valley near Badrinath in Chamoli district of Garhwal in September and it was found on exposed moderate slope.


I cannot meaningfully comment further at this stage.

I need, at some point, to take a further close look at the genus in the Himalaya, so can add to what I have had to say so far.
This is not something which can be accomplished quickly. There are SO many genera in the Himalaya in need of further study and revision.
Hopefully members will be able to get up into different parts of the Himalaya during 2017 to take more good quality close-up photos of various Androsaces including petals, sepals, foliage, habit and habitat to improve reference material.

Pity I do not have the funds to travel to the Himalaya and explore for and photograph Androsaces myself – so must rely on the efforts of others.


Small leaves in rosettes, single flowers, A. globulifera I hope
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Plumbaginaceae and Primulaceae (incl. Myrsinaceae) Fortnight: Primulaceae- Androsace mucronifolia? en-route Hemkund sahib::-PKA13: : : 5 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (5).
This herb was seen on the boulders en-route Hemkund Sahib.
I think Androsace mucronifolia?
Family: Primulaceae.

It is looking like Androsace mucronifolia (Syn: Androsace globifera Klatt).
This species is very common in moist rocks above 3500 m in alpine meadows.


Androsace mucronifolia

Wonderful pictures. of a mat forming Primula with Pink to white scented flowers. Oval leaves 2-4mm in rosettes.


I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather than a Primula.
I can say with confidence that it is not Androsace mucronifolia – in fact the plant from VOF is not remotely similar to A.mucronifolia.  This species is only recorded from Aghanistan to Kashmir, so would not be expected in VOF anyhow.

The image does seem to match the posting named as Androsace garhwalica (Primula garhwalica). I am not familiar with this species.  Clearly it has been named by Indian botanists.  Could someone tell me the publication this species was described in and how it is distinguished from related species?


It might be A.globifera but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like ‘Flowers of Himalaya’ say short-stalked or stalkless.  It is the most likely candidate as per other threads in Androsace globifera



 

Androsace-1 in Chamoli district of Garhwal : 5 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (1)

In addition I am also attaching two more images (Androsace-1 and …) for your comments on the ID. Androsace-1 was photographed at an elevation of 4800m in Chamoli district of Garhwal in first week of September and it was close to a ridge top on steep slope


Other than confirming that this is not Androsace mucronifolia, I cannot meaningfully comment further.

I need, at some point, to take a further close look at the genus in the Himalaya, so can add to what I have had to say so far.
This is not something which can be accomplished quickly. There are SO many genera in the Himalaya in need of further study and revision.
Hopefully members will be able to get up into different parts of the Himalaya during 2017 to take more good quality close-up photos of various Androsaces including petals, sepals, foliage, habit and habitat to improve reference material.

Yellow flowers suggest A. flavescens, but not other characters especially long ciliate leaves


Isn’t this already included in the list as Androsace globifera Duby which seems to be

correct ID.


 

 


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References: POWO Catalogue of Life  The Plant List Ver.1.1  IPNI  Flora of China  India Biodiversity Portal  IBIS Flora

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