{"id":1375411,"date":"2016-11-29T08:13:05","date_gmt":"2016-11-29T08:13:05","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2024-12-24T12:08:39","modified_gmt":"2024-12-24T06:38:39","slug":"androsace-sarmentosa-subsp-primuloides","status":"publish","type":"ht_kb","link":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/efi\/androsace-sarmentosa-subsp-primuloides\/","title":{"rendered":"Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Androsace sarmentosa <\/i>subsp. primuloides<\/i> (Duby) R. Govaerts, World Checklist Seed Pl. 1(1): 7 1994<\/i>. (Syn: Androsace primuloides<\/em>\u00a0Duby<\/a>; Androsace sarmentosa<\/em>\u00a0var.\u00a0primuloides<\/em>\u00a0Hook.f.<\/a>; Androsace studiosorum<\/em> Kress<\/a>);
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\nW. & Central Himalaya: Nepal, West Himalaya as per POWO<\/a>;<\/div>\n
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\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/080311_901.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/080311_900.jpg\"<\/a><\/div>\n
i.d. of Pangi flowers al141011<\/a> : 7 posts by 6 authors. Attachments (2)<\/span><\/div>\n
Some more flowers from Pangi for i.d.<\/div>\n
Location Pangi Valley, Himachal
\nAltitude 3000 mts
\n<\/span>Habit herb
\nHabitat wild
\nHeight 14 inches<\/span><\/div>\n
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I hope <\/span>Androsace sarmentosa<\/i><\/p>\n

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Androsace sarmentosa<\/i><\/p>\n

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Interesting\u00a0Plant …, It was growing on Rock or u kept there for photo?<\/p>\n

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Thank you … for the id and confirmation… and no … it was not growing on the rock, I had to disentangle it so that I could get a clearer picture of it since it was so spread out…<\/p>\n

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I am currently thinking this comes within Androsace studiosorum<\/i> rather than A.sarmentosa<\/i><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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\u00a0<\/i><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/073111_1545.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/073111_1544.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/073111_1543.jpg\"<\/a><\/div>\n
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Primulaceae from Pangi – 1 … id – Al012312:<\/a>
\nA member of the Primula<\/i> family… I thought to be Primula macrophylla…
\n<\/i>but is it…??<\/p>\n

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Location Pangi valley, Himachal<\/span>
\nAltitude 4500 mts
\n<\/span>Habit herb
\nHabitat wild
\nHeight – 6 inches
\n<\/span>Season July August<\/span><\/p>\n

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Not Primula …, it is <\/span>Androsace
\n<\/i>Probably <\/span>Androsace foliosa<\/i><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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4500m asl…. wow… too high..<\/p>\n

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…, … is correct that it is an Androsace<\/i> and not a Primula<\/i>.\u00a0 However, it does not tally with what I understand to be Androsace foliosa<\/i>.\u00a0 Instead, I consider it to be Androsace studiosorum<\/i>.<\/div>\n
I have not seen\u00a0A.foliosa<\/i> in the wild. I\u00a0did not come across\u00a0it in the main Kashmir Valley (not sure if it grows there as Stewart gives no records) but as I frequently passed through or by-passed altogether the elevations where it grows, would probably have missed it anyhow.<\/div>\n
The altitude that you say you found it is a major problem in that Stewart had no records of\u00a0A.foliosa<\/i> anywhere near such high elevations.\u00a0Nasir in Primulaceae<\/i> for Flora of Pakistan says it is fairly common in the NW Himalaya, found in forest shade and clearings from 2300-3200m.\u00a0 This just does not fit.<\/div>\n
And given the written description and line drawing provided, this does not tally either.\u00a0 The images on the Androsace<\/i> world site are only of cultivated specimens (the provenance is not given) but they do not fit either with the specimen photographed.<\/div>\n
I am speculating that part of the confusion has arisen from the clump you took containing foliage which superficially might appear similar to the leaves of A.foliosa<\/i> is probably those of Bistorta affinis<\/i> – a gregarious plant at 4500m.\u00a0 The true rosette can be seen to have rather different foliage.\u00a0 This foliage and the head of flowers looks like it may well be what I knew as Androsace\u00a0primuloides<\/i> but is now Androsace studiosorum<\/i>.<\/b>\u00a0\u00a0 This is close to Androsace sarmentosa<\/i> – which is typically an Eastern Himalayan species.\u00a0\u00a0 The range of the two seems to overlap in Himachal Pradesh.\u00a0 In Lahoul you find A.studiosorum<\/i> such as in the Miyah Nullah.<\/div>\n
Kletter & Kreichbaum within ‘Tibetan Medicinal Plants’ discussed the problems attempting to distinguish between A.studiosorum and A.sarmentosa<\/i> concluding it has not been satisfactorily resolved.\u00a0They ended up calling the material they found on the Rohtang as Androsace<\/i> aff. sarmentosa<\/i>.<\/div>\n
Stewart records Androsace studiosorum<\/i> from 3300-4200m in Kashmir where it is common, so 4500m Pangi-side is not out-of-the-question.\u00a0 He did not record Androsace sarmentosa<\/i> in Kashmir.
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Flowers of the Himalaya under the old name of Androsace primuloides<\/i> (now A.studiosorum<\/i>) considered it was endemic to Kashmir but this is incorrect; it is known from Lahoul and Baltistan as well and perhaps elsewhere but difficult to know beyond these places due to uncertainty between the two species.
\n<\/span>You can see a hairy stolon developing in the clump that was dug up – these tend to be more prominent in <\/span>A.studiosorum<\/i> cf. <\/span>A.sarmentosa<\/i>, which supports my suggested identification.<\/span><\/div>\n
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Sorry folks… I have not been keeping track of all the changes … but I am very glad that all old threads are being carefully scrutinised to help guide others… A BIG Thanks to … for their untiring efforts…<\/p>\n

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\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_3271.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_3270.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_3269.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_3272.jpg\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Plumbaginaceae and Primulaceae (incl. Myrsinaceae) Fortnight: Primulaceae- Androsace sp? at VoF::-PKA14:<\/a> : 3 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (4).<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

This was seen on the rock crevices.<\/span>
\nLooks like some Androsace<\/i>\u00a0sp?? Family: Primulaceae<\/i><\/div>\n
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To me this looking like Androsace sarmentosa<\/i>,
\nLets other comments<\/p>\n

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I think yes, nice photographs<\/p>\n

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Is it Androsace sarmentosa<\/i> or A.studiosorum<\/i>?\u00a0 See other recent posts on difficulties distinguishing between the two species.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Longer stolons, shorter petioles, A. sarmentosa<\/em> var. primuloides<\/em> (A. studiosorum<\/em>) I hope<\/p>\n

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Androsace sarmentosa\u00a0<\/i>subsp.\u00a0primuloides\u00a0<\/i>(Duby) Govaerts.\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) Govaerts<\/a><\/p>\n

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\u00a0\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/Androsace%20sarmentosa.JPG\"<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n
Plumbaginaceae and Primulaceae (incl. Myrsinaceae) Fortnight: Androsace sarmentosa from Himachal: GSG-09<\/a> : 4 posts by 4 authors.
\nAndrosace sarmentosa <\/i>from Himachal [Kullu, 3000 m asl]<\/span><\/div>\n
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Beautiful.
\nAndrosace sarmentosa<\/i> : Primulaceae<\/em><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Usually a dense white wooly plant with leaves in rosettes, with stolons with reddish hairs, and with an umbel of small bright pinkish flowers born on long flowering stem.
\nFlowers 8mm
\n<\/span>Leaves rosette; outer elliptic lanceolate to oblanceolate spreading. Inner much larger and erect.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Is this A.sarmentosa<\/i> or A.studiosorum<\/i>? Insufficient detail is shown from photo to attempt to distinguish. See my other recent posts about the similarities and difficulties telling them apart.<\/p>\n

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Two common varieties of A. sarmentosa<\/em> of FBI, var. foliosa<\/em> (now A. foliosa:<\/em> stolons less than 5 cm long, stout, leaves long petioled)<\/span> and var. primuloides<\/em> (syn: A. studiosorum<\/em> as per POWO, Catalogue of Life; stolons up to 16 cm long, shorter petioles),<\/span> this seems var. primuloides<\/em><\/p>\n

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ID seems correct !<\/p>\n

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\"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

SK 2988 24 September 2021<\/a>: 6 very high res. images.
\nLocation: Kalikot, West Nepal <\/span>
\nAltitude: 1900 m. <\/span>
\nDate: 14 August 2021<\/span>
\nHabit : Wild<\/span>
\nAndrosace<\/em> …. ???<\/p>\n

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Pl. check\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/em> subsp. primuloides<\/em><\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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I guess\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/i>\u00a0Wall. only.<\/p>\n

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I think more closer to images at\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/em> subsp. primuloides<\/em><\/span><\/a>\u00a0rather than\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/span><\/a>
\n<\/em>POWO<\/a> shows its distribution in Nepal.<\/span><\/p>\n

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\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/Androsace%20-Chumbyi-%20in%20trough%20at%20New%20York%20Botanical%20%20Garden%20-Chris%20Chadwell-%20II.JPG\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/Androsace%20-Chumbyi-%20in%20trough%20at%20New%20York%20Botanical%20%20Garden%20-Chris%20Chadwell-%20IV.JPG\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/Androsace%20-Chumbyi-%20in%20trough%20at%20New%20York%20Botanical%20%20Garden%20-Chris%20Chadwell-%20III.JPG\"<\/a>\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Fwd: Androsace sarmentosa or A.studiosorum grown at New York Botanical Garden<\/a> : 1 post by 1 author. Attachments (4)<\/span><\/div>\n
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Following my posts about Androsaces<\/i>, I share some images I took of an Androsace<\/i> labelled as A.studiosorum<\/i> ‘Chumbyi’ growing in troughs in the rock garden at New York Botanical Garden.<\/div>\n
There is much confusion about the differences between A.sarmentosa<\/i> and A. studiosorum<\/i>.<\/div>\n
The latter species was previously known as A.primuloides<\/i>, which at one time I understood was primarily a NW Himalayan species found in Kashmir and Himachal Pradesh whereas A.sarmentosa<\/i> was primarily an Eastern Himalayan species, typically found in Nepal.\u00a0 As Chumbi is a district which separates Nepal and Bhutan (the route through which British mountaineering expeditions attempting to climb Mt. Everest from the North (Tibet) – it was first climbed from the south (through Nepal).<\/div>\n
If A.studiosorum<\/i> is not found in Chumbi (after which cultivar ‘Chumbyi’ is named) then it would have to be Androsace sarmentosa<\/i>.\u00a0 However, what a plant is labelled as in cultivation is no guarantee the identification is correct.<\/div>\n
I have recently noted that there appear to be no records for Androsace sarmentosa from Chumbyi!<\/div>\n
Flora of Bhutan records A.sarmentosa<\/i> from Tanglu above Darjeeling<\/span> on banks and paths in forest and alpine meadows @ 2740-3700m.<\/span><\/div>\n
As to how to distinguish between A.sarmentosa<\/i> and A.studiosorum<\/i>?\u00a0<\/span>
\nFlowers of the Himalaya say <\/span><\/span>the latter species is distinguished by the outer bracts of the umbels being lanceolate (not linear) and with more numerous and longer stolons to 12cm with reddish-brown hairs.<\/span><\/div>\n
Kletter and Kreichbaum looked into the matter in ‘Tibetan Medicinal Plants’ but their findings partly contradict those differences given in ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’!\u00a0 They say A.studiosorum<\/i> it differs from A.sarmentosa<\/i> on the basis of having leaves with a narrow petiole, broader bracts and inflorescence <\/span>with villous, white hairs<\/span> <\/span>whereas in A.sarmentosa<\/i> the hairs are brown and wavy (the opposite<\/u> of what\u00a0<\/span>Polunin & Stainton said).\u00a0<\/span><\/span> Oh dear!\u00a0 I presume the colour of hairs is primarily based on what they appear <\/span>like in dried, not living specimens?<\/span><\/div>\n
Kletter & Kreichbaum also say that Nasir says both species overlap in their distribution in the Western <\/span>Himalayn regions of Kumaon, Tehri-Garwhal, Lahoul, Chamba and parts of W.Nepal, where plants exist\u00a0<\/span>which cannot be assigned with certainty to either species.\u00a0They concluded they could not decide whether <\/span>specimens collected on Rohtang Pass in HP which species it belonged to, so assigned a name of Androsace<\/i> <\/span>aff. sarmentosa<\/i>.<\/span><\/div>\n
I have observed what I understand to be what\u00a0is now called\u00a0A.studiosorum<\/i> in both Kashmir & Lahoul.\u00a0 Plus <\/span>what I take to be A.sarmentosa<\/i> in Central Nepal.\u00a0 I have an “overall” impression of both species but whether <\/span>that is better than the herbarium botanists have come up with, we shall see?<\/span>
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According to ‘Flora of Gangotri NP’ most of the specimens in herbaria they consulted which had been named as A.sarmentosa<\/i> were in fact (on the basis of the colour of hairs it seems) A.studiosorum<\/i> – yet they state that A.sarmentosa<\/i> is found in Kashmir and I thought it was not!\u00a0 I have checked with Stewart and Nasir who also do not list A.sarmentosa<\/i> in Kashmir – so I suspect the authors of this flora have made a mistake.\u00a0They follow Nasir in saying hairs in A.studiosorum<\/i> are white.<\/div>\n
Did\u00a0Polunin & Stainton make a mistake?<\/div>\n
Perhaps, most members of this group will emphasise with the observations of Smith & Lowe in ‘Androsaces’<\/i>: one of them made a careful comparison of herbarium specimens of the two species, failing to reveal any clear differences!\u00a0 Though with the caveat that differences did exist but were not such that they would be noticeable to a gardener).<\/div>\n
I think what this confusion helps illustrate is that despite a lot of effort, sometimes one just cannot decide which species <\/span>a plant belongs to with certainty. Having been involved with identifying plants for more than 40 years now, I can state that <\/span>I frequently meet people form all sorts of backgrounds who EXPECT this can easily be done.\u00a0 They do not appreciate how variable species can be and we CANNOT always neatly “pigeon-hole” a specimen into this particular species (or genus or family), subspecies <\/span>or variety nor should we always expect to – however unsatisfactory that may be. <\/span><\/div>\n
Better to adopt a cautious approach to identifying plants – often a degree of uncertainty exists.<\/span><\/div>\n
It is important for members suggesting identifications say WHY more often, so this thinking\/reasoning can be checked – in this <\/span>way we learn more and the overall level and reliability of identifications improve, which they do need to.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\nVOF Week: Primula sp. at VOF:<\/a> 4 images.
\nThis was seen on the rock crevices<\/span>. Looks like some Primulaceae<\/em> sp.<\/p>\n

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Is it some Androsace<\/em> species as feedback by … in another thread ?<\/p>\n

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Surely an Androsace<\/em> !!<\/p>\n

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This is\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/em>\u00a0subsp.\u00a0primuloides<\/em>\u00a0(Duby) R. Govaerts<\/u><\/a>\u00a0as per images and details herein.<\/p>\n

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VOF Week: Primula sp-2. at VOF:<\/a>
\nThis is one more set of Primulaceae<\/em> sp photographs from VoF<\/span>.<\/p>\n

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looks like Androsace<\/em> species.<\/p>\n

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To me flowers appears to be same as in … post at: efi thread<\/a><\/div>\n
Tentatively identified as “either:<\/div>\n
One has to confirm it whether it is Androsace sarmentosa<\/em> Wallich in Roxburgh as per link:<\/div>\n
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http:\/\/www.efloras.org\/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016948<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n
Or Androsace studiosorum<\/em> Kress as per link:
\nhttp:\/\/www.efloras.org\/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081167<\/span><\/a>“<\/span><\/div>\n
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Yes this is same pic, Androsace<\/em>.<\/p>\n

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This may be\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/em>\u00a0subsp.\u00a0primuloides<\/em>\u00a0(Duby) R. Govaerts<\/u><\/a>\u00a0as per images and details herein.<\/p>\n

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\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_2979.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_2976.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_2978.jpg\"<\/a>\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/IMG_2977.jpg\"<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Plumbaginaceae and Primulaceae (incl. Myrsinaceae) Fortnight: Primulaceae- Androsace sp-2? at VoF::-PKA15<\/a> : 4 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (4).
\nThis is one more set of\u00a0<\/span>Androsace<\/i> sp photographs <\/span>from VoF.<\/span><\/div>\n
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Looks like Androsace sarmentosa<\/i><\/p>\n

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Some leaves would help<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Looks similar to that on Pl.79 of the book FOH.
\nGood one again. Leaves would have helped.<\/div>\n
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Does this come within\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/i> or A.studiosorum<\/i>?\u00a0 Interesting that in ‘The Valley of Flowers’ book it is called A.primuloides<\/i>, which was previously considered (certainly in Stewart’s day up to 1970s and ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’ (1980s)\u00a0to be the species found in Kashmir which became A.studiosorum.\u00a0 According to ‘Tibetan Medicinal Plants’ A.sarmentosa<\/i> has an inflorescence with brown & wavy hairs, leaves with a broader petiole, narrower bracts<\/span> cf. A.studiosorum<\/i> (which has an inflorescence with villous, white hairs).
\n<\/span>However, they also say the 2 species overlap in Kumaon, Tehri-Garwhal, Lahoul, Chamba and parts of Western Nepal, where plants exist which cannot be assigned with certainty to either species.
\n<\/span>Does anyone know of further studies about this?<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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This may be\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/em>\u00a0subsp.\u00a0primuloides<\/em>\u00a0(Duby) R. Govaerts<\/u><\/a>\u00a0as per images and details herein.<\/p>\n

\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Androsace sarmentosa in FOI<\/a>:
\nI think your and Thingnam ji’s image at\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa in FOI<\/a>, are of\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa<\/strong>\u00a0subsp.\u00a0primuloides<\/strong>\u00a0(Duby) R. Govaerts<\/span><\/a>\u00a0and not of\u00a0Androsace\u00a0sarmentosa<\/strong>\u00a0Wall.<\/span><\/a>,\u00a0as per images and details herein.
\n<\/span>Pl. correct.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Maybe you are right. However, unless a key is available to separate the subspecies, I would not try to narrow it down to the subspecies level.\u00a0Androsace sarmentosa\u00a0<\/em>is generic enough.<\/p>\n

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.<\/span><\/p>\n

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\"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a> \"\"<\/a>
\nAndrosace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) Govaerts<\/a>: 4 very high res. images.<\/p>\n

Location:\u00a0Bhulbhule, \u00a0Jumla, Nepal<\/span><\/div>\n
Altitude: 3500m.<\/span><\/div>\n
Date: 30 May 2022<\/span>
\nHabit :\u00a0Wild\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n
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 <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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.<\/span><\/p>\n

References:
\n<\/span>POWO<\/a> \u00a0Catalogue of Life<\/a>\u00a0 The Plant List Ver.1.1<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0IPNI<\/a>\u00a0 BSI Flora of India<\/a>\u00a0 Flora of Pakistan<\/a> (Androsace studiosorum<\/b>\u00a0Kress) FOP illustration<\/a> India Biodiversity Portal<\/a> \u00a0IBIS Flora<\/a>\u00a0 <\/span>The National Gardening Association<\/a>\u00a0 flora.kadel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) R. Govaerts, World Checklist Seed Pl. 1(1): 7 1994. (Syn: Androsace primuloides\u00a0Duby; Androsace sarmentosa\u00a0var.\u00a0primuloides\u00a0Hook.f.; Androsace studiosorum Kress); . W. & Central Himalaya: Nepal, West Himalaya as per POWO; . i.d. of Pangi flowers al141011 : 7 posts by 6 authors. Attachments (2) Some more flowers…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"ht-kb-category":[8182],"ht-kb-tag":[],"class_list":["post-1375411","ht_kb","type-ht_kb","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","ht_kb_category-androsace"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/ht-kb\/1375411","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/ht-kb"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/ht_kb"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1375411"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/ht-kb\/1375411\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1375411"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"ht_kb_category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/ht-kb-category?post=1375411"},{"taxonomy":"ht_kb_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/efloraofindia.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/ht-kb-tag?post=1375411"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}