Sambucus wightiana Wall., Numer. List 6303 1832. ;
Gandala; Dwarf Elder;
Pangi flowers al020911a: Pangi was dry… and dusty (due to excessive road-making) and with no rains… a lot of flowers and shrubs have been buried under rampant debris dumping… I am sure that a lot of species would be lost if this carries on….
Location Pangi valley
Sir I thought it looked different from the first Sambucus wightiana id’d from kalatope ‘id al270411a’. Attachments (1)
I had a second look at your Kalatope plant. efi thread
It appears to be an umbellifer, perhaps Heracleum candicans. Please upload in separate thread if you have some better photographs of that.
For last few days I have been trying to find some reliable differences between three Himalayan species, but frankly not much to choose, although S. adnata and S. chinensis (syn: S. javanica, S. hookeri) are distributed Nepal eastwards and S. wightiana in Western Himalayas. S. chinensis is also distinct in upper pair of leaflets not decurrent at base and 2-4 glandular teeth on lateral leaflets. S. adnata and S. wightiana are closely similar but latter has large stipules, not found in former. Here are few images of S. adnata:
Under these circumstances, it feels reasonable to treat your plant as S. wightiana.
OK sir will do so now..
Thank you for all the interest you take in our observations.. it does help in keeping us too striving towards betterment.. Here are the photos of the S. wightiana as id’d earlier.. in case there are any further details required of this observation, please do let me know as I noticed this plant has been flowering after monsoons too..
Location Kalatope, Chamba
Altitude 2100 mts
Plant height 12 inches (as against the Pangi observation which was about 3 feet)
Observe enlarged leaf sheath in third and fourth photographs, alternate leaves and more important bilobed petals in your second photograph, of which one is largest, two medium sized and two very small. Heracleum candicans as I wrote earlier.
Wild Plant for ID : Kashmir : 23JUN16 : AK-38 : 5 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (1)
Wild plant seen on way to Sonamarg on 26th April.
Could be Sambucus Species?
I have only this picture.
Yes Sambucus wightianus, very common in Kashmir valley.
Fwd: Sambucus wightiana at fruiting stage in Kashmir – not an ‘accepted name’ in ‘The Plant List’. : 8 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (8)
There are posts of this elder in flower and one single shot its foliage but not at FRUITING stage.
I would urge the photographers in this group to be active “in the field” in autumn and early winter months to capture more species of all genera, when in fruit – some of which are colourful and attractive or curiosities.
Flowers of Himalaya record this from heavily grazed slopes @ 1500-3000m from Afghanistan to Himachal Pradesh; it is common in the W.Himalaya. Usually forming gregarious clumps. The globular berries are orange or red, then turning black. Most parts of the plant have medicinal uses.
In the UK, our native elder, Sambucus nigra (planted occasionally in Kurram and Hazara) has uses – its flowers make a wonderful home-made ‘champagne’ whilst the berries are used in wine-making.
Stewart records it as gregarious on hill sides and valley bottoms where snow, often avalanche snow, lies late. Very common in Kashmir at 1500-3000m. Apparently the laxative effect of the berries disappears when they are cooked.
This plant has been included under a number of different families including Caprifoliaceae and Sambucaceae, now some of the genus are in ADOXACEAE.
Can anyone tell me what current name this plant is included under, if not Sambucus wightiana.
I have seen Sambucus adnata in Nepal – it is common around Kathmandu, so perhaps one of our members can photograph it in the Kathmandu Valley and post images for us as this species not included yet.
Have slides of this elder taken in the 1980s which I may post as well – once members have got over the shock of viewing the hirsute Britisher botanist in image 7.
Images 1-7 taken at roadside in forest between Tangmarg and Gulmarg in August during my last visit to Kashmir – plus Photo no. 8, a view of the fine scenery as one starts to ascend above Tangmarg
Thanks, … I checked up again. It is an accepted name as per the following:
Thanks for this. I think all this “out ranks” ‘The Plant List’, so we can stick with this name.
MORE THAN ENOUGH changes of name to contend with as it is – and that is for me. What many other must think, I cannot imagine…
Sambucus wightiana Wall. ex Wight is an accepted name for what was known as S. ebulus in FBI. The Plant List accepts it, so does GRIN, so there should be no doubt about this name. It is very much distinct from S. ebulus L.
It comes as a relief that Sambucus wightiana stands despite not being in ‘The Plant List’.
Presumably the plant was named after Robert Wight (1796-1872), a Scottish surgeon who spent 30 years in India?
He was Director of the Botanic Garden in what was Madras. Making use of local artists to make illustrations of the plants around him, he learned the art of lithography and used it to publish ‘Icones Plantarum Indiae Orientalis’ (Illustrations of the plants of Eastern India) in six volumes in 1856.
Apparently Hooker recorded some 122 plants honouring Wight including Arisaema wightii from S.India. But S.wightiana is not from S.India, so would be a bit surprising?
It is there in Plant List Accepted Name
Also in GRIN (which I rely more)
Even in Tropicos
In fact in my book “Forest Flora of Srinagar”, I had listed differences with S. ebulus with which it was identified in FBI, but there also it was mentioned that Himalayan plants are different.
I will upload scanned page of my book once I reach India in First week of January, 2017
I was using an older (out-of-date) version, which prompted my query, see:
Hopefully, all other members are referring to the most up-to-date version.
Thanks, … Pl. keep the followings in your favourites or Bookmark, for future use when ever required.
Botanical name: Sambucus wightiana Family: Viburnaceae (Viburnum family): 1 high res. image.
Kashmiri name: Haapat myav
Location: Kulgam, Jammu and Kashmir
Date of collection: September 2020.
While travelling from main kulgam to chimmer area of kulgam.. Found this sp. At forest area deep in the woods.
Which sp. Of Sambucus is this.: 1 high res. image.
Photograph taken at high altitude of district kulgam jammu and kashmir.
Date of collection: September 2020.
Sambucus wightiana have yellow orange fruits.
Looks like Sambucus racemosa L. ?? Is it in wild or cultivated ??
In wild state sir.
Then I am not sure !
Sambucus wightiana, very common tall herbaceous species in Kashmir.
S.wightiana have orange colour fruits… But here fruits are dark red
The fruits are originally pale yellow, turn to orange, red and finally black, that is why it was originally confused with European S. ebulus. I had pointed out change in name in my book in 1976.
hank you very much sir.. For clearing the confusion