Scrophulariahimalensis Royle ex Benth., Scroph. Ind. 18 1835. as per IPNI;
West Himalaya and East Himalaya as per POWO;
Common name: Himalayan Figwort
Obtusely angled robust herb with ovate-lanceolate to ovate-cordate leaves without appendages on petiole; flowers in few flowered cymes forming a loose panicle about 10 cm broad; sepals obtuse-rounded, scarious-margined, shorter than capsule; corolla green, 4-5 mm long, upper lobes longer than others; fetile stamens much protruded from corolla; capsule globose, style 6-9 mm long.
Scrophulariaceae of the Western HimalayasBy Francis . Pennell (Description & Keys-Scrophularia calycina, edgeworthii, himalayensis (himalensis in the Plant List), polyantha, exserta, obtusa, robusta, petraea, dentata, scoparia, nudata, stewartii, suffruticosa, stenothyrsa, koelzii, scabiosaefolia, moniliformis, decomposita & striata)    

 


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Scrophularia for Id from Chakrata: This tall herb was captured from near Deoban Herbal park, Chakrata, very common there. This I suppose can be a species of Scrophularia. Please provide the id….


I don’t think there is any species by that name.

It should be Scrophularia himalensis


It will also be Scrophularia elatior going by discussions at Scrophularia elatior from Narkanda, Himachal

Stem is different in Scrophulariahimalensis Royle ex Benth. as at Scrophularia himalensis ABAUG2019/02


On further checking, I find the main stem to be obtusely angled only.
It is only the side inflorescence branches, which are acutely angled.

So it remains as Scrophulariahimalensis Royle ex Benth. only as at Scrophularia himalensis ABAUG2019/02


 

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Scrophularia himalensis AT OCT2016/07 : 6 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (5)

Scrophularia himalensis
Herb: Approx. 1m tall
October 23, 2016
Place: Narkanda, Shimla, India
Altitude: 8700- 8800 feet

Attachments (1)


Very beautiful pics …!!


It will also be Scrophularia elatior going by discussions at Scrophularia elatior from Narkanda, Himachal

Stem is different in Scrophulariahimalensis Royle ex Benth. as at Scrophularia himalensis ABAUG2019/02


On further checking, I find the main stem to be obtusely angled only.
It is only the side inflorescence branches, which are acutely angled.

So it remains as Scrophulariahimalensis Royle ex Benth. only as at Scrophularia himalensis ABAUG2019/02


…, my clicks are of Scrophularia himalensis. Only two species, S. calycina and S. himalensis, occur in this area according to all the FLORAS on H.P.
… was with me on that day, when it as clicked. We had discussed it.
It perfectly matches with the photographs posted by …


.

Thanks, … I agree with you.

 

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This Scrophularia was shot from Chakrata region, please help to identify.. can this be Scrophularia elatior?


S. elatior is more like S. edgeworthii (sepals without scarious margin) with much longer filaments. This one seems to have clearly scarious margin. I would go with. S. himalayensis.


Thanks Sir for the id help..


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Scrophularia sp.? ABAUG01/24 : 9 posts by 4 authors. 3 images.
Is this a Scrophularia sp? The leaves are dark green and herbaceous and the plants reach about five feet tall (mostly they bend under their own weight or battered by rain). Please advise.
Above Mcleodganj, Dharamshala, HP
1800m

17 August 2015


Just to add to this mail. I find a weevil feeding on the Scrophularia plants almost everyday. After poking around for a long time I finally found its identity and thought I will share with you. The plant I think now is Scrophularia himalensis or a Figwort.
A tiny weevil not larger than about 4mm, Cionus sp. very likely Cionus hortulanus.

4 images.


Very nice pics of the insect … the plant is, I think, rightly identified as Scrophularia himalensis..


Thank you … Here are a couple of photographs I took today of the flowers. 2 images.


Thanks, … for all these wonderful posts


Scrophularia himalensis nomenclature : 2 posts by 2 authors.

Last year I had photographed the plants of S. himalensis Royle ex Benth very commonly growing in Simla, Kashmir and other hill stations of NW Himalayas and prominently mentioned in all older Floras from the region. While checking its status I find that this as well as the closely related species are not mentioned in recent books on Himalayas, nor any website dealing with floristics. Instead S. elatior is prominently mentioned in these books as well as in GRIN and eflora of China as species from Himalayas. Can any member find the link between the two and authentic citation of synonymy for these related species.


Last year I had photographed from Manalis Scrophularia himalensis Royle, quite common in NW Himalayas and described all older Floras from the region. While checking its latest nomenclature I find that this species as well as closely related S. polyantha not mentioned in recent Floras/databases and instead find S. elatior mentioned in recent publications. Can any one please sort out this problem for me.


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Verbenaceae herb ? SN61117 : 3 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (4)
Wild herb both in Manali area and Uttrakhand

Scrophularia sp.


Thanks …;It isScrophularia himalensis Royle ex Benth. according to flora Kullu district by Dhaliwal and Sharma 1999


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Scrophularia himalensis ABAUG2019/02 : 17 posts by 5 authors. Attachments (24)
As discussed in the group by other members before, there is some confusion about the nomenclature of this species. While Francis Pennell (Scrophulariaceae of the Western Himalyas) and earlier George Bentham (Scrophularianeae Indicae) both use Scrophularia himlayensis, POWO only recognises Scrophularia himalensis.

A very similar plant, Scrophularia elatior, is listed in Flora of China and is accepted by POWO. The distribution is given Nepal and farther east towards South-central China.

There is no mention of S. himalensis in Flora of China, which is understandable as POWO gives its distribution only farther west of Nepal: in Uttarakhand, Himachal Pradesh and Jammu & Kashmir.
So our plants should be S. himalensis sinceS. himalayensisis not accepted by POWO or the Plant List.
When and how the name changed or whether it was a result of a typo, I could not find out.
Pennell describes the species as:
“Leaf-blades cordate at base, dentate but not lobed, glabrate; inflorescence relatively wide about 10 cm. wide; sepals obtuse-rounded, slightly scarious-margined; corolla becoming 4-5 mm. long; style 6-9 mm. long; seeds 0.5-0.6 mm. long; stems terete.”
This fits our species well. However, dimensions vary a bit as they would if Pennell was describing the species using herbarium specimens. I am yet to see the seeds but the inflorescence can be 20cm wide and 45-50cm long on plants which can be more than 6ft tall. Corolla length is correct in the description but style is roughly 12mm long. The four stamens are slightly shorter and I could not find any staminodes. The leaves can be as large as 25cm long and 12cm wide and vary in shape on the same plant, some more elongated than others. To me, the leaves are one of the most attractive of all plants. Petiole has a groove running along its length and some can have hairs on the sides. The main stem is squarish with rounded edges, becoming more round upwards. It may not be very strong as it’s common to see the plants battered by rain.
It is also difficult to see the corolla made up of two lips. I have tried but not understood properly.
I am sharing some photos here to show some of these features.
All photos taken in Mcleodganj and above, between 1750-1850m elevations, this year and earlier.

PS: I had to remove some photos as the message size exceeded 8mb.



I missed checking on GBIF which accepts Scrophularia himalayensis Royle ex Benth. but has no records (occurrences) associated with it. It lists Scrophularia himalensis Royle ex Benth. as ‘doubtful’ but gives 17 occurrences (11 for S. himalensis Royle, which it treats as a synonym). To add to the confusion, a few herbarium specimens included are recorded originally as S. himalayensis.
I am not sure how to resolve this. I will defer to our senior members to decide.

You can post upto 8 mb in first post and than attach again upto 8 mb in its reply.

Thus, you can post upto any amount but in successive replies in the same thread.


Thank you … I will do that in future.


I have learnt that when in doubt, pl. follow IPNI
So take Scrophularia himalensis Royle ex Benth. as the correct name.

There is no record of the other name in IPNI on search.


Thank you … I will do as advised.


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Scrophularia edgeworthii (Scrophulariaceae) from Rohtang.. : 4 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (6)
Here am adding some images of Scrophularia edgeworthii taken from Rohtang in August 2018.
Thanks … for showing this beauty…!!

nice close ups but can i see the whole plant and its habitat, please


Thanks … but i don’t have habit images..


Appears more close to Scrophularia himalensis rather than Scrophularia edgeworthii


I agree with …!

Nice post but habitat and leaf images would have been added advantage!


Nice Shot though cropped!!… Which one is correct name..

Scrophularia himalensis  Royle ex Benth. or Scrophularia himalayensis Royle ex Benth.

I agree with the second one..


Scrophularia himalensis  Royle ex Benth. is the correct one as per IPNI:
/species/m—z/s/scrophulariaceae/scrophularia/scrophularia-himalensis


A query for all the experts….

Which portal to follow for the latest updates and real binomial names of the plants…..there are still some problems regarding accepted name and synonyms..

No site is perfect. Compare and decide by yourself.


Pl. see discussions at Which database to follow?

Scrophularia elatior in FOI : 4 posts by 3 authors.
I think images of Tabish ji of Scrophularia elatior in FOI, should be of Scrophularia himalensis as per images and details herein.
Scrophularia elatior also does not have range in the area as per Catalogue of Life and POWO.
Pl. correct.

Thank you Garg ji for bringing this up. Ten years back, my identification was based on Polunin & Stainton which mentions Scrophularia elatior as distributed from Uttar Pradesh (now Uttarakhand) to Bhutan, at altitudes of 1600-3000 m. It makes no mention of Scrophularia himalensis. But now it turns out that these two species have been quite mixed up in the literature. Flora of China and Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal mention Scrophularia elatior but do not mention Scrophularia himalensis. On the other hand Flora of Bhutan does mention S. himalense. The result is that POWO shows distribution of Scrophularia himalensis as West and East Himalaya, leaving out Nepal, which looks a bit strange. There is no key available which involves both the species. To make matters worse, a detailed description of Scrophularia himalensis is difficult to find. Pennell’s description is not sufficient. As always, falling back on Flora of British India, makes things clearer to me. It mentions S. eliator from Nepal eastwards, and mentions S. himalensis with eastern limit as Kumaun.
So, I will assume that the plants from Dhanaulti are Scrophularia himalensis. I will not be surprised if in future I find that these two species have been merged. 🙂

Scrophularia elatior from Narkanda, Himachal : 17 posts by 3 authors. 4 images.

Scrophularia elatior from Narkanda, Himachal Pradesh. July end.

Notice the stout, prominently 4-winged stem.

 


Missed adding this image.


Yes it is S.elatior the drooping flower prominent bracteoles confirm it


To me appears similar to images at Scrophularia himalensis


I think the stem being 4-winged is a clear indicator of it being Scrophularia elatior. As far as I know, Scrophularia himalensis doesn’t have a 4-winged stem.


Benth. Scroph. Ind. 18, and in DC. Prodr. x. 304 ; tall, glabrous or glandular above, stem 4-winged, leaves petioled ovate or lanceolate coarsely toothed, cymes spreading peduncled many-fld. in long panicles, peduncles and pedicels spreading, sepals ovate subacute, stamens far exserted. Wall Cat 3928.
CENTRAL AND EASTERN HIMALAYA ; Nepal, Wallich ; Sikkim, alt. 6-10,000 ft., J. D. H., &c. KHASIA MTS., alt. 4-5000 ft., common.
Tall, very stout, 3-5 ft. high, branched, stem below as thick as the middle finger, wings slender. Leaves 5-10 by 1-5 in., rarely subcordate, primary and secondary nerves distinct ; petiole stout, 1-3.1/2 in. Panicle sometimes much branched from the base, bracts linear ; peduncles 1-2 in. ; branches and pedicles spreading. Sepals not margined, not half the length of the globose-ovoid beaked capsule. Stamens twice as long as the corolla ; staminode spathulate or 0. Seeds as in S. urticifolia.
Royle in Benth. Scroph. Ind. 18, and DC. Prodr. x. 304 ; glandular-pubescent above, stem obtusely angled,leaves ovate-cordate or lanceolate crenate,petiole long naked, cymes many- and lax-fld. spreading opposite and alternate in a long rather slender panicle, peduncles and pedicels long slender, sepals rounded obscurely margined or not, corolla very short, stamens far exserted.
WESTERN HIMALAYA, from Kunawur to Kumaon, alt. 5-8000 ft., common.

Very near to S. polyantha, but the petioles are longer and not appendaged, and the flowers twice as large ; the seeds are similar.


Going by this, I agree with … id.


I earlier missed seeing this image.
From it, it is clear that the main stem is obtusely angled only.
Only upper side inflorescence becomes acutely angled.
Your post matches with other posts at Scrophularia himalensis

On further checking with other posts at Scrophularia himalensis, I feel the correct id of your plant is Scrophularia himalensis only.


…, this image (Scrophularia elatior4.jpg) is a long shot. In the close up shown in  Scrophularia elatior3.jpg the wings on the stem are so prominent.
I am also attaching the closest image of the sepals I could find.
Attachments (1)

One more image showing the sepals.

Attachments (1)


Leaves in your plant are clearly cordate and sepals are obscurely margined and the main stem is obtusely angled. So it is clearly Scrophularia himalensis as other images herein.

Also distribution clearly supports this.


That is not convincing enough. Leaves only look slightly cordate, which agrees with the description. Also the stem, as well as leaf-stalks are winged. In addition, it was a sturdier plant, something that is not straightforward to see from the pictures.

Regarding the distribution I agree, it probably is not reported from here, but one never knows. After all Scrophularia himalensis was not known from Bhutan earlier. I still feel it is a plant different from what I have seen in Dhanaulti (which I think is S. himalensis).


It is up to you. But I do not agree with you on this.


Yes, we agree to disagree on this.


I further examined two specimens each from both the species in GBIF from India and Nepal. Pl. see

I still believe in id as Scrophularia himalensis


I am attaching cropped parts of two images of S. himalensis and S. elatior from the links you sent. You can see the winged stem in S. elatior.

Attachments (2)


Scrophularia himalensis Royle
Photographed from Chakrata, Uttarakhand, 17-9-2011

Scrophularia himalensis Royle
Photographed from Manali, 23-10-2009

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