Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl. , Gard. Chron. 1856: 260 260 1856. (Syn. Thunbergia grandiflora var. laurifolia (Lindl.) Benoist);
.
Images by Bhagyashri Ranade & Vedprakash Singh (Identified by Bhagyashri Ranade, Balkar Singh & Gurcharan Singh) (Inserted by Bhagyashri Ranade & J.M.Garg)

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.
Laurel Clock Vine, laurel-leaved clockvine, Blue Trumpet Vine, Blue Sky vine, laurel-leaved thunbergia, purple allamanda;
.
Woody climber similar to T. grandiflora but with ovate-lanceolate leaves; flowers in racemes; pedicel about 2 cm. 
.
Thunbergia grandiflora                                    Thunbergia laurifolia
Leaves ovate, to 20 cm long, angular toothed.   Leaves ovate-lanceolate, to 12 cm long
Leaf base cordate                                                      Leaf based narrowed
pedicel 4-5 cm long                                                  Pedicel 2 cm long
.


10 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (3)

Thunbergia grandiflora?

Kindly validate.


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Attached here FI description and Icones plate relating to T. grandiflora Roxb. I think inflorescence of T. grandiflora Roxb. is not featured by long drooping elongated raceme like the T. laurifolia Lindl. But, my view is personal only, because following eflora does not support my view –

Moreover, cultivated form may take any character deviated from the wild form.
Going by the above site, and also with old lit. I have found in the net there is no other way to visually differentiate the two species except for the leaf, petiole, flower size.
Going by the leaf shape, texture (dull against shiny?) I would rather vote for T. laurifolia Lindl.
I may be wrong suggesting the above.

Attachments (2)


Thanks for your suggested id, links and additional information.

Let us wait for more comments.

Really appreciate the efforts taken by you.


so did you read all those things that … sent you?
what do you think your case is?
PLEASE LET ME//US KNOW


ID is correct.


Please dont mark this as complete
its not complete  as far as the differential diagnosis is concerned
there are still a few lingering doubts based on the australian experience pages


Well …, from my part I am not opposing any suggested ID.

I gave my view because I thought leaves in Thunbergia-JU-P1010039.jpg is xerox copy of Lucid central image

of Laurel Clock Vine. – Lucid Central html.


this is not anybody’s phd or even MS thesis
I have wasted enough time on this case
I am inclined to let it be… lets close it and mark it as complete if … so desires…
when I run into one of these I’ll take my usual umteen pictures with rulers and then we will see…
hopefully comparison of both species will be found soon…


My opinion is Thunbergia lauriflolia !


Thunbergia grandiflora-right  & T. laurifolia-left
Thunbergia grandflora– top  & T. laurifolia- bottom

Yes … you are right

There has been lot of discussion whenever T. grandiflora or T. lauriflora was uploaded by any member. Here are the differences
Thunbergia grandiflora                                                       Thunbergia laurifolia
1. Leaves ovate, to 20 cm long, angular toothed,            1.  Leaves ovate-lanceolate, to 12 cm long, much longer than broad
almost as broad as long.
2. Leaf base deeply cordate                                                2. Leaf based narrowed or shallowly cordate
3. Pedicel 4-5 cm long                                                          3. Pedicel 2 cm long
Here are my two plants from Delhi


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Thunbergia laurifolia from Delhi : Attachments (2). 9 posts by 5 authors.

Uploading photographs of Thunbergia laurifolia from Khalsa College, Delhi


I think you have inadvertently mixed up the filenames … T. laurifolia and T.grandiflora


No … They are properly uploaded. You please observe the photographs carefully and compare with Hawaii website links sent with the other mail


… I confused myself !!


Thanks for bringing up this discussion. According to the description on
HEAR 1
HEAR pdf
the leaves of Thunbergia laurifolia have margins almost entire or slightly toothed. The same can also be seen in pictures on
http://www.hear.org/starr/plants/images/species/?q=thunbergia+laurifolia
HEAR 2
In your pictures, and also on those on FOI, the leaves are strongly lobed. Also, the base of the leaves of T. laurlifolia is supposed to be obtuse or slightly heart-shaped. The leaves in your pics and those on FOI have deeply heart-shaped bases.
Hence I think all these are Thunbergia grandiflora only.


I request you to kindly compare my plant with the herbarium specimen of your first link and Last photograph of your third link.

I am uploading fresh photographs of distant shots of leaves of two species as uploaded by me as T. grandiflora and T. laurifolia, respectively, for comparison.


Id remaining undecided- Thunbergia laurifolia or Thunbergia grandiflora?


Those still having doubts about its identity are requested to view these links. Lobed and slightly cordate leaves are a common feature of T. laurifolia:


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Acanthaceae Week: Thunbergia laurifolia from Delhi: Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl., Gard. Chron. 1856: 260 260 1856. syn: Thunbergia grandiflora var. laurifolia (Lindl.) Benoist
Woody climber similar to T. grandiflora but with ovate-lanceolate leaves; flowers in racemes; pedicel about 2 cm.
Photographed from Khalsa College, Delhi



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Acanthaceae Week: Laurel Clock Vine – Thunbergia laurifolia: Acanthaceae Week Laurel Clock Vine Thunbergia laurifolia    

19 Nov 2005
Begur, Bengaluru



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efloraofindia:”22102011MR4’’ ? Purple Allamanda Pune: Request for validation ?Purple Allamanda
Date/Time-Oct 2011
Location-Place, Altitude, GPS-Pune
Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type- Private Garden
Plant Habit-Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Climber was along a fence of a garden
Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- green
Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-bluish purple flowers

Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds-not seen


Thunbergia grandiflora of Acanthaceae family


This is thunbergia grandiflora
… look at the leaf very carefully and take en face photo of one complete leaf to show leaf margin and attachment to the stem.. for your own files and memory.. leaf shape is unique… even if flower color shows a great deal of variation over time and regions… the leaf almost stays the same….
I have found these in Miami, Fl, Key west, florida, california… naturalized and in gardens and in snowy countryside in botanical gardens, in England at kew and of course all over India… in Bengal we get several colors… of course always in the blue- bluish white to bluishpurple (like yours) ….. develops seeds in Key west fl but not seen any seedpods on any of the hundred or so vines I keep an eye on off and on for three years in in several neighborhoods of Kolkata recently partly because local women do not leave mush after they pluck every darn flower for worship or just because… ( its a
disease in India) … GOD never wanted soooo many flowers as to deplete the gene pool… ) … or we dont have appropriate
pollinators… even if we had pollinators, they would not develop a habit of coming to that vine if they were not assured of some good appreciable amount of nectar from a large numbers of flowers…


I would rather go with Thunbergia laurifolia


Thank you … for identification. I have studied your previous posts on this matter and found this excellent explanation by you how to differentiate the two

In the thread you wrote
The leaves of T. grandiflora are conspicuously cordate, nearly as broad as long, with longer corolla tube.
T. laurifolia. Note that leaves are much less wider as compared to length, and  not cordate at base.
In both species the flower varies from blue to white.
In this thread you wrote
Uploading fresh photographs of distant shots of leaves of two species as uploaded by me as T. grandiflora and T. laurifolia, respectively, for comparison.
Really beautiful pictures made it very easy to understand

When I studied this plant on the net before uploading I found info (I am sorry I do not have the link address) saying that these 2 are synonyms. but when you identified it as T laurifolia I said no it means these 2 are different and studied your posts again


I think T. laurifolia is the accepted name for T. grandiflora var. laurifolia as per the plant list.

FOI also says so @ Flowers of India
But the 2011 revision of Flora of China says Thunbergia grandiflora.
While searching for T. grandiflora I couldn’t see the species name as such in the plant list

It was discussed earlier also on the group, but here it goes

Thunbergia grandiflora                                          Thunbergia laurifolia
Leaves ovate, to 20 cm long, angular toothed.        Leaves ovate-lanceolate, to 12 cm long
Leaf base cordate                                                    Leaf based narrowed

pedicel 4-5 cm long                                                  Pedicel 2 cm long


Please refer to my earlier posts. Thunbergia grandiflora Roxb. is now correctly known as T. alata Bojer ex Sims according to the Plant List.


I got it and I somehow didn’t get that when I searched for the T grandiflora.


Cant believe that Thunbergia grandiflora and Thunbergia alata are one and the same…

where the literature says one from India and other from Africa with lots of distinct characters..


I am not getting convinced myself on T. grandiflora getting synonymised with T. alata. Please find attached herewith the recent revision (2011) incorporated with eflora of China.

Please share if someone has any relevant information regarding the same.


Thanks for Flora of China PDF.
Let us discuss our view points in academic manner and not get upset because some thing does not suite us. I had uploaded the plant as Thunbergia grandiflora only and appended this note:
Thunbergia grandiflora (Roxb. ex Rottl.) Roxb., Bot. Reg. 6: , pl. 495 1820. syn: Flemingia grandiflora Roxb. ex Rottl.
Woody climber with broadly ovate often deeply cordate leaves, angular-toothed, 3-5 nerved; flowers in drooping racemes, on up to 5 cm long pedicels, corolla blue, soewhat 2-lipped. Photographed from DU, Delhi
Common names: Blue trumpet vine, Bengal clock vine, sky vine.
The plant though closely related to T. laurifolia is treated as synonym of T. alata in Kew Plant List and perhaps in Schonenberger, J. 1999. Floral structure, development and diversity in Thunbergia (Acanthaceae). Bot. J. Linn. Soc. <http://www.tropicos.org/Publication/1172> 130: 1–36. Final comments can be made only after seeing this paper.
I had requested members to find out about this publication and then only we will make final comments. No one perhaps been able to get it, but can’t ignore it if it has been adopted by the Plant List.
But as pointed out by …, Flora of China publication is 2011 publication and we will follow it till any concrete results come.

Let us not be found by fixed ideas that I know this plant for last so many years and know it is different. Who by the way is challenging Nerium indicum being merged back into N. oleander. If we are scientists, let us have open mind like scientists be guided by reason and evidence.


Does we get Nerium in the Wild form??? from where, which state?


Jammu, Udhampur, Punjab, Nepal, Pakistan http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?25229


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Request for identification
Can it be Thunbergia laurifolia?
Date/Time-Oct 2011
Location-Place, Altitude, GPS-Pune
Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-Garden
Plant Habit-Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Climber
Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- green some are almost straight at base, some round some have acute angle at base
Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts- blue flowers with green buds

Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds- not seen


I had forgotten to type the dimensions of the leaves and the Pedicel

Leaves 8-9 cms long and 3 to 3.5 cms wide

Pedicel 2.5 cms


Thunbergia laurifolia please

Please look at the leaves.


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Date/Time- 11:30 Noon

Location- Place, Altitude, GPS- Gram Vigyan Vidyalaya, Wardha, 20* 44′ 39.15″ N – 78* 36′ 09.58″

Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type- Garden

Plant Habit- Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Climber

Height/Length- Wall of 7′ height supporting the Climber

Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- Photo attached

Inflorescence Type/ Size-

Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts- 1.5″ ~ 2.5″/ Light Blue

Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds-

Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.- No Fragrance


I think its Thunbergia grandiflora


On second thought I am now confused… looked at the leaves again
leaves in pic 1 and two have somewhat different shapes…
cant rule out Thunbergia laurifolia…


I think Thunbergia laurifolia as the leaves are slightly toothed. Also, the base of the leaves is slightly heart-shaped or obtuse.


Agree with Thunbergia laurifolia


Three features differentiate the species, lanceolate leaves usually less than 12 cm long and pedicel 2cm long in T. laurifolia. Here are typical plants

Leaves ovate-cordate, up to 20 cm long, pedicel 4-5 cm long in T. grandiflora
efi thread
The first photograph (leaves) and second (pedicels) suggest T. laurifolia clearly, other photographs create some doubt.
I some how have the feeling that most photographs on the net, including above one may not be a hybrids betwen the two species, as is also true for Campsis grandiflora and C. radicans, where these hybrids are placed with either species in most databases, including our FOI.

Also in typical specimens of T. laurifolia, the leaves are almost unlobed, rounded at base, and 3-nerved from base. They are deeply cordate, somwhat lobed or toothed along margin and 3-5 nerved from base.


Thunbergia flowers are sooo appealing that they crop up everywhere… Kolkata has many all in diverse areas… now I ”ll look at them more critically and photograph the leaves and pedicels with a ruler handy…
After my exam in dec I’ll dig out my pics and post them esp so you can verify or put me straight… ha ha…



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Posted earlier, identified by … Seen in Colombo.


.


Thunbergia For ID : Sri Lanka : 170813 : AK-3 : Attachments (1). 3 posts by 2 authors.

Picture taken on 19/11/2010 at Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Is this Thunbergia grandiflora or Thunbergia laurifolia?
I get confused between the two.

Kindly validate.


Thunbergia grandiflora var. laurifolia,


Thanks for the id



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Attached are pictures of Thunbergia laurifolia captured at Mumbai in January 2013.

Please validate, though the pics may not sufficient….


Based on Gurcharan ji’s upload of T. grandiflora and key provided, this should be T. laurifolia due to the shape of the leaf base… Kindly validate


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Attached are pictures of Thunbergia grandiflora captured at Mumbai in October 2012.

Please validate.


efi page on Thunbergia grandiflora 


How do you differentiate it with Lucid Centra html


I would also like to know how T. laurifolia and T. grandiflora are different, …


Presently I do not know … I have earlier thread where I placed mine under T. g., but I need to have a relook. However, one points favour mine – broad leaf as have been noted in Lucid Centra html. But that is not enough surely.


I too have been under the same impression sir. The bigger leaved one being T. grandiflora. I may have also imagined a different shade to the flower as and when I came upon one but I think I would really like to know the true botanical differences! I will look too.

Here is my thread


Such cases are the reason I have been repeatedly asking people to  get the front and side views of flowers
front and backs of leaves
nodes
any special feature of the lead pedicle and of petole
and AND AT LEAST PUT FINGER IN THE PICTURE AT LEAST IN ONE OF THE SRIES OF THAT PARTICULAR PLANT
a ruler is the best, but in itsabscence a pen a pin even the camera lens cap with its name written .. so in case one need it one can measure the font and surmise
but alas…


Yes Didi, only face of flowers is often not enough to decide the species.


Pl. see the differences: In efi thread


Thanks …, what a discussion in that thread!


Based on Gurcharan ji’s upload of T. grandiflora and key provided, this should be T. laurifolia and not T. grandiflora as I had first imagined due to the shape of the leaf base..

Kindly validate.


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Thunbergia For ID : Mumbai : 18AUG15 : AK-33 : 33/33 : 4 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (2)

Thunbergia climber seen in a cultivated garden in Mumbai.

Is it T.laurifolia or T. grandiflora?

How to distinguish the two?


efi pages on Thunbergia laurifolia & Thunbergia grandiflora


In my view  yours is Thunbergia laurifolia. Thunbergia laurifolia is similar to Thunbergia grandiflora except that leaves are elliptical. Thunbergia grandiflora is similar to Thunbergia laurifolia But leaves are heart-shaped.


Thanks for the id and making me aware of the differences between the two Species.



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Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl. :5 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (2) – 2 mb each.
Location: Kulalumpur, Malyasia
Date: 1 March 2015
Altitude: 66 m.

Habit : Cultivated


ok



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Mumbai- 2/10/09;  at Mayem Lake in Goa- on 27/9/09; Khalsa College, Delhi- Sept’09?; 29/12/2009, 10.23 am- Goa; 01 May 2010 at Bhavanisagar Dam park; Podranea species? – indiantreepix | Google Groups Thunbergia grandiflora – indiantreepix | Google Groups ID 4310 2 – efloraofindia | Google Groups


 

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Thunbergia grandiflora (Roxb. ex Rottl.) Roxb.

in gardens of Thane & Mumbai


1st image should be Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl. as per images and keys herein. Leaves are not clear in the 2nd.

This grand Thunbergia was recorded from a garden in Panipat and Botanical garden of Punjabi University, Patiala..

Thunbergia grandifolia.. please let me know if there are any id issues


nice


It should be Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl. as per images and keys herein.



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This flower was photographed near Kolkata in December 1978. Can anyone help with the ID?

Thunbergia grandiflora commonly known as Bengal clock vine.

It should be Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl. as per images and keys herein.


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Thunbergia grandiflora from Nouni Uni Solan: Thunbergia grandiflora from YPS University of Horticulture and Forestry Nouni Solan

It should be Thunbergia laurifolia Lindl. as per images and keys herein.



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Thunbergia grandiflora ? : 4 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (4)- around 700 kb each.
Hassan, 1000m, Karnataka, january 2019.
It seems T.grandiflora. Perhaps cultivar.
Can you confirm ?

Thunbergia laurifolia.


Thank you. Relatively close of T.grandiflora.


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Thunbergia Species For ID : Jijamata Udyan,Mumbai : 020714 : AK-2 :  8 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (1).

Picture taken on 18/4/14.

Is this Thunbergia laurifolia or Thunbergia grandiflora?

I seem to be getting confused between the two.


Thunbergia grandiflora to me


My earlier post could also be T. laurifolia?


Keys available at Thunbergia grandiflora


Isn’t it the same pic as in the 2nd pic in efi thread which one was identified and validated as T. grandiflora by …?


Thanks for pointing out.
The id has been confirmed as T. laurifolia by … a few days ago.

…, kindly validate this post.


If I do not make mistake …, … confirmed another thread – efi thread, not the one we are discussing – efi thread


Thunbergia laurifloia to me.



References:

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