Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) R. Govaerts, World Checklist Seed Pl. 1(1): 7 1994. (Syn: Androsace primuloides Duby; Androsace sarmentosa var. primuloides Hook.f.; Androsace studiosorum Kress);
.
W. & Central Himalaya: Nepal, West Himalaya as per POWO;
.

/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/080311_901.jpg/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/080311_900.jpg
i.d. of Pangi flowers al141011 : 7 posts by 6 authors. Attachments (2)
Some more flowers from Pangi for i.d.
Location Pangi Valley, Himachal
Altitude 3000 mts
Habit herb
Habitat wild
Height 14 inches

I hope Androsace sarmentosa


Androsace sarmentosa


Interesting Plant …, It was growing on Rock or u kept there for photo?


Thank you … for the id and confirmation… and no … it was not growing on the rock, I had to disentangle it so that I could get a clearer picture of it since it was so spread out…


I am currently thinking this comes within Androsace studiosorum rather than A.sarmentosa


 


/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/073111_1545.jpg/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/073111_1544.jpg/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/073111_1543.jpg

Primulaceae from Pangi – 1 … id – Al012312:
A member of the Primula family… I thought to be Primula macrophylla…
but is it…??

Location Pangi valley, Himachal
Altitude 4500 mts
Habit herb
Habitat wild
Height – 6 inches
Season July August


Not Primula …, it is Androsace
Probably Androsace foliosa


4500m asl…. wow… too high..


…, … is correct that it is an Androsace and not a Primula.  However, it does not tally with what I understand to be Androsace foliosa.  Instead, I consider it to be Androsace studiosorum.
I have not seen A.foliosa in the wild. I did not come across it in the main Kashmir Valley (not sure if it grows there as Stewart gives no records) but as I frequently passed through or by-passed altogether the elevations where it grows, would probably have missed it anyhow.
The altitude that you say you found it is a major problem in that Stewart had no records of A.foliosa anywhere near such high elevations. Nasir in Primulaceae for Flora of Pakistan says it is fairly common in the NW Himalaya, found in forest shade and clearings from 2300-3200m.  This just does not fit.
And given the written description and line drawing provided, this does not tally either.  The images on the Androsace world site are only of cultivated specimens (the provenance is not given) but they do not fit either with the specimen photographed.
I am speculating that part of the confusion has arisen from the clump you took containing foliage which superficially might appear similar to the leaves of A.foliosa is probably those of Bistorta affinis – a gregarious plant at 4500m.  The true rosette can be seen to have rather different foliage.  This foliage and the head of flowers looks like it may well be what I knew as Androsace primuloides but is now Androsace studiosorum.   This is close to Androsace sarmentosa – which is typically an Eastern Himalayan species.   The range of the two seems to overlap in Himachal Pradesh.  In Lahoul you find A.studiosorum such as in the Miyah Nullah.
Kletter & Kreichbaum within ‘Tibetan Medicinal Plants’ discussed the problems attempting to distinguish between A.studiosorum and A.sarmentosa concluding it has not been satisfactorily resolved. They ended up calling the material they found on the Rohtang as Androsace aff. sarmentosa.
Stewart records Androsace studiosorum from 3300-4200m in Kashmir where it is common, so 4500m Pangi-side is not out-of-the-question.  He did not record Androsace sarmentosa in Kashmir.
Flowers of the Himalaya under the old name of Androsace primuloides (now A.studiosorum) considered it was endemic to Kashmir but this is incorrect; it is known from Lahoul and Baltistan as well and perhaps elsewhere but difficult to know beyond these places due to uncertainty between the two species.
You can see a hairy stolon developing in the clump that was dug up – these tend to be more prominent in A.studiosorum cf. A.sarmentosa, which supports my suggested identification.

Sorry folks… I have not been keeping track of all the changes … but I am very glad that all old threads are being carefully scrutinised to help guide others… A BIG Thanks to … for their untiring efforts…



This was seen on the rock crevices.
Looks like some Androsace sp?? Family: Primulaceae

To me this looking like Androsace sarmentosa,
Lets other comments


I think yes, nice photographs


Is it Androsace sarmentosa or A.studiosorum?  See other recent posts on difficulties distinguishing between the two species.


Longer stolons, shorter petioles, A. sarmentosa var. primuloides (A. studiosorum) I hope


Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) Govaerts. Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) Govaerts


.


 /wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Androsace%20sarmentosa.JPG
Plumbaginaceae and Primulaceae (incl. Myrsinaceae) Fortnight: Androsace sarmentosa from Himachal: GSG-09 : 4 posts by 4 authors.
Androsace sarmentosa from Himachal [Kullu, 3000 m asl]

Beautiful.
Androsace sarmentosa : Primulaceae

Usually a dense white wooly plant with leaves in rosettes, with stolons with reddish hairs, and with an umbel of small bright pinkish flowers born on long flowering stem.
Flowers 8mm
Leaves rosette; outer elliptic lanceolate to oblanceolate spreading. Inner much larger and erect.


Is this A.sarmentosa or A.studiosorum? Insufficient detail is shown from photo to attempt to distinguish. See my other recent posts about the similarities and difficulties telling them apart.


Two common varieties of A. sarmentosa of FBI, var. foliosa (now A. foliosa: stolons less than 5 cm long, stout, leaves long petioled) and var. primuloides (syn: A. studiosorum as per POWO, Catalogue of Life; stolons up to 16 cm long, shorter petioles), this seems var. primuloides


ID seems correct !



SK 2988 24 September 2021: 6 very high res. images.
Location: Kalikot, West Nepal
Altitude: 1900 m.
Date: 14 August 2021
Habit : Wild
Androsace …. ???


Pl. check Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides


I guess Androsace sarmentosa Wall. only.


I think more closer to images at Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides rather than Androsace sarmentosa
POWO shows its distribution in Nepal.


.


/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Androsace%20-Chumbyi-%20in%20trough%20at%20New%20York%20Botanical%20%20Garden%20-Chris%20Chadwell-%20II.JPG/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Androsace%20-Chumbyi-%20in%20trough%20at%20New%20York%20Botanical%20%20Garden%20-Chris%20Chadwell-%20IV.JPG/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Androsace%20-Chumbyi-%20in%20trough%20at%20New%20York%20Botanical%20%20Garden%20-Chris%20Chadwell-%20III.JPG

Following my posts about Androsaces, I share some images I took of an Androsace labelled as A.studiosorum ‘Chumbyi’ growing in troughs in the rock garden at New York Botanical Garden.
There is much confusion about the differences between A.sarmentosa and A. studiosorum.
The latter species was previously known as A.primuloides, which at one time I understood was primarily a NW Himalayan species found in Kashmir and Himachal Pradesh whereas A.sarmentosa was primarily an Eastern Himalayan species, typically found in Nepal.  As Chumbi is a district which separates Nepal and Bhutan (the route through which British mountaineering expeditions attempting to climb Mt. Everest from the North (Tibet) – it was first climbed from the south (through Nepal).
If A.studiosorum is not found in Chumbi (after which cultivar ‘Chumbyi’ is named) then it would have to be Androsace sarmentosa.  However, what a plant is labelled as in cultivation is no guarantee the identification is correct.
I have recently noted that there appear to be no records for Androsace sarmentosa from Chumbyi!
Flora of Bhutan records A.sarmentosa from Tanglu above Darjeeling on banks and paths in forest and alpine meadows @ 2740-3700m.
As to how to distinguish between A.sarmentosa and A.studiosorum
Flowers of the Himalaya say
the latter species is distinguished by the outer bracts of the umbels being lanceolate (not linear) and with more numerous and longer stolons to 12cm with reddish-brown hairs.
Kletter and Kreichbaum looked into the matter in ‘Tibetan Medicinal Plants’ but their findings partly contradict those differences given in ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’!  They say A.studiosorum it differs from A.sarmentosa on the basis of having leaves with a narrow petiole, broader bracts and inflorescence with villous, white hairs whereas in A.sarmentosa the hairs are brown and wavy (the opposite of what Polunin & Stainton said).  Oh dear!  I presume the colour of hairs is primarily based on what they appear like in dried, not living specimens?
Kletter & Kreichbaum also say that Nasir says both species overlap in their distribution in the Western Himalayn regions of Kumaon, Tehri-Garwhal, Lahoul, Chamba and parts of W.Nepal, where plants exist which cannot be assigned with certainty to either species. They concluded they could not decide whether specimens collected on Rohtang Pass in HP which species it belonged to, so assigned a name of Androsace aff. sarmentosa.
I have observed what I understand to be what is now called A.studiosorum in both Kashmir & Lahoul.  Plus what I take to be A.sarmentosa in Central Nepal.  I have an “overall” impression of both species but whether that is better than the herbarium botanists have come up with, we shall see?
According to ‘Flora of Gangotri NP’ most of the specimens in herbaria they consulted which had been named as A.sarmentosa were in fact (on the basis of the colour of hairs it seems) A.studiosorum – yet they state that A.sarmentosa is found in Kashmir and I thought it was not!  I have checked with Stewart and Nasir who also do not list A.sarmentosa in Kashmir – so I suspect the authors of this flora have made a mistake. They follow Nasir in saying hairs in A.studiosorum are white.
Did Polunin & Stainton make a mistake?
Perhaps, most members of this group will emphasise with the observations of Smith & Lowe in ‘Androsaces’: one of them made a careful comparison of herbarium specimens of the two species, failing to reveal any clear differences!  Though with the caveat that differences did exist but were not such that they would be noticeable to a gardener).
I think what this confusion helps illustrate is that despite a lot of effort, sometimes one just cannot decide which species a plant belongs to with certainty. Having been involved with identifying plants for more than 40 years now, I can state that I frequently meet people form all sorts of backgrounds who EXPECT this can easily be done.  They do not appreciate how variable species can be and we CANNOT always neatly “pigeon-hole” a specimen into this particular species (or genus or family), subspecies or variety nor should we always expect to – however unsatisfactory that may be.
Better to adopt a cautious approach to identifying plants – often a degree of uncertainty exists.
It is important for members suggesting identifications say WHY more often, so this thinking/reasoning can be checked – in this way we learn more and the overall level and reliability of identifications improve, which they do need to.



VOF Week: Primula sp. at VOF: 4 images.
This was seen on the rock crevices. Looks like some Primulaceae sp.


Is it some Androsace species as feedback by … in another thread ?


Surely an Androsace !!


This is Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) R. Govaerts as per images and details herein.



/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/IMG_2978-8.jpg

VOF Week: Primula sp-2. at VOF:
This is one more set of Primulaceae sp photographs from VoF.


looks like Androsace species.


To me flowers appears to be same as in … post at: efi thread
Tentatively identified as “either:
One has to confirm it whether it is Androsace sarmentosa Wallich in Roxburgh as per link:
Or Androsace studiosorum Kress as per link:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081167

Yes this is same pic, Androsace.


This may be Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) R. Govaerts as per images and details herein.



/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/IMG_2979.jpg/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/IMG_2976.jpg/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/IMG_2978.jpg/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/IMG_2977.jpg

Plumbaginaceae and Primulaceae (incl. Myrsinaceae) Fortnight: Primulaceae- Androsace sp-2? at VoF::-PKA15 : 4 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (4).
This is one more set of Androsace sp photographs from VoF.

Looks like Androsace sarmentosa


Some leaves would help


Looks similar to that on Pl.79 of the book FOH.
Good one again. Leaves would have helped.

Does this come within Androsace sarmentosa or A.studiosorum?  Interesting that in ‘The Valley of Flowers’ book it is called A.primuloides, which was previously considered (certainly in Stewart’s day up to 1970s and ‘Flowers of the Himalaya’ (1980s) to be the species found in Kashmir which became A.studiosorum.  According to ‘Tibetan Medicinal Plants’ A.sarmentosa has an inflorescence with brown & wavy hairs, leaves with a broader petiole, narrower bracts cf. A.studiosorum (which has an inflorescence with villous, white hairs).
However, they also say the 2 species overlap in Kumaon, Tehri-Garwhal, Lahoul, Chamba and parts of Western Nepal, where plants exist which cannot be assigned with certainty to either species.
Does anyone know of further studies about this?


This may be Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) R. Govaerts as per images and details herein.


.


Androsace sarmentosa in FOI:
I think your and Thingnam ji’s image at Androsace sarmentosa in FOI, are of Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) R. Govaerts and not of Androsace sarmentosa Wall., as per images and details herein.
Pl. correct.


Maybe you are right. However, unless a key is available to separate the subspecies, I would not try to narrow it down to the subspecies level. Androsace sarmentosa is generic enough.


.



Androsace sarmentosa subsp. primuloides (Duby) Govaerts: 4 very high res. images.

Location: Bhulbhule,  Jumla, Nepal
Altitude: 3500m.
Date: 30 May 2022
Habit : Wild 

 


.

References:
POWO  Catalogue of Life  The Plant List Ver.1.1   IPNI  BSI Flora of India  Flora of Pakistan (Androsace studiosorum Kress) FOP illustration India Biodiversity Portal  IBIS Flora  The National Gardening Association  flora.kadel

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.