Pavetta hongkongensis (Hong Kong)

Pavetta hongkongensis Bremek., Repert. Spec. Nov. Regni Veg. 37: 104 1934. (Syn: Tarenna kwangsiensis Hand.-Mazz.);

S. China to Vietnam as per WCSP;

China South-Central; China Southeast; Hainan; Vietnam as per Catalogue of Life;

SK1406 03 Sep 2018 : 36 posts by 5 authors. Attachments (5)

Location: Victoria Peak, Hong Kong

Date: 12 August 2018

Elevation: 1300 ft.

Habit : Wild

This looks like Pavetta hongkongensis.

Thanks, … You have great knowledge of Flora of Hong Kong.

No I have not. Yes I know the orchids well though but other plants I need to check the keys. Hong Kong has very well documented flora and fauna because it is a very small place. There are proper books and online materials to check.

Pavetta hongkongensis Bremek. Thank you …

“There are proper books ” any modern ones??? the flora in bhl site is from 1800s

Literature available in BHL are mostly classical publications and many are written in Latin but that is the foundation of the modern plant taxonomy; plant identification is only a part of the subject. It was very difficult to obtain classical literature prior to BHL and Botanicus era.

yes Thank you for sharing the list and often BHL / they dont let me download a book pdf. I find there are many other sources for these old books, i generally find them but old lists and descriptions are just that

It’s strange that when I worked in India for almost 10 years, no one gifted me a flora book from government but when I came to Hong Kong in 2011, in 2012 the HK government knowing that I work on plants, gifted this complete set of books and also other books they publish from time to time.

By the way I complete my 7 years in Hong Kong today! Thanks for all your love and encouragement.

Attachments (1) – 1 MB.

That is great. That is why sometimes small is beautiful.

Congratulations on seven years, you are flourishing.

got any sitaphal in the mean time?

and yes thats the difference. i have my pet peeves about this difference in our psyche here

yes i get sometimes elaborate book gifts from botanical gardens in the west us and uk because i had done something for them // volunteered to teach or write or some such, but never even a companionable walk with BSI botanists or staff except for the gardeners who are not academic but nice.

Sitaphal?

well, if i recall you were in Dehra dun and had sent me a birds call cd and in some other thread said cant find sitaphal up there but I had them here just coming to market in large numbers and so i offered to send you a few kgs. i dont remember sending them to you, may be you demurred? but we talked of dragon fruit and sitaphal etc… that you had in HK?

Yes Now i remember now that sitaphal an ramphal debate. Yes it’s easy to find both here becausectechnically most of the things that hk people eat, comes from outside hk. Very rare but there are some farms but not enough to feed so many people in hk.

Thank you …,

It is not “strange” for me that no Govt. gave or gifted me any book in 40 years of my research career! I never expected that I will carry out research on gifted books. Good libraries are there for this purpose which allow free consultation of book and journals. Some authors give complimentary copies on request or now a days send PFD of publications. Govt. Organizations in India publish books and journals on no profit no loss basis and they are very cheap as such.

I myself sent PDF of Flora of India, Volume 23 to many persons free of cost.

Hence please do not feel this way that you did not get any book in India as gift in 10 years. Hongkong is a small place and their Govt should not be compare with our Govt.

I am sorry but I didn’t mean that my work is dependent on the books gifted by others. Neither am I comparing our governments. And my response was in the form of the attached image for … (four volumes of Flora of Hong Kong) who asked if there is something modern.

But if a government agency gifts you a book published by the government, then it comes as a kind of recognition and acknowledgment of your work. What I got from HK government was the recognition of my work. I do get lot of book gifts from all over the world and of course I gift to people too when I feel like. I also used to send DVDs and CDs with floristic documents to the members of this group while I was in India, every one knows.

I also (100%) agree that most of the publications by government agencies are cheap and thats a good thing, afterall those government agencies work on Indian Tax payers money if I am correct.

Secondly, you said about good libraries. May I know how easy it is to visit a BSI library (I am not sure but this question is based on assumption that you are from BSI, otherwise no need to answer)? I do have many very good friends still at BSI.

Thirdly I have one last question. During 1870 – 1890 one person wrote a book on Flora of British India in 6 volumes, each volume over 700 pages of species description (original plus his own). Why no one else could write till now?

Just for info of all the members that there is a full set of flora of China available in Chinese and English, with all latin names and their chinese names (even chinese names are unique). All their herbarium collections are digitised (each and every herbaria at any given university) and available online. I am sure you cant compare India and HK but surely you can compare China and India.

My intention is not to express my grudge against anyone, but to express that it feels good to be recognized. It gives encouragement to work harder and do better for science.

Thank you for your concern.

The questions asked by you have already been asked in past. See the attachments.

Yes, I served BSI for 36 years. Their libraries and herbaria are public properties and anyone can go and consult.

Digitization is going on in all the Units of BSI but their specimens are not yet online as per Govt. of India policies. They are putting their Floras online and eventually all their publications will be available in their website.

Attachments (3)

I respect you more than before for your response

It is good to see everyone whether from BSI or outside helping in building efloraofindia as we are. efloraofindia published by BSI online has really been a great help to us since it’s publication.

Of course, China is far ahead of us now. But it is not that we will always be lagging. Our time will also come.

first : i respect you and your dedication and work. you have been the dada in true sense, consulting here, but sending me info on the jandaman island stuff when i wanted to see them. i deeply appreciate it and you.

BHL comment is not personal.

BHL by its own computer algorithm does let me download some pdfs. thats all.

Secondly

BSI used to have a library in back of Indian Museum, i have gone there many years ago, but lack of environmental hardships the people were not so patient even if they wanted to. I did get to see some journal if i recall, but its not just BSI library, the National library where I have been a member since about 1959 or so is equally dismal. Asiatic soc has it far worse, and the Presidency Univ is dismal too. where can one turn, esp younger up and coming scientist?

And I am sure the GOOD scientists like yourself keep doing research and producing papers despite these hardships, and i marvel at that.

BSI ENVIS annual reports show new species identified by the dozens each year, that can be scores if more facilities were to be available.

… its not grudge that i am talking about, but a restlessness and uneasiness, when the world is flying by, and we are stagnating in politics and whatever else that hampers us. And Scientists are not given their full respect or facilities. and thank you for showing me the books, i esp liked to see that. Jana got the gingers book out. now we wait for your compilation.

what i want to know is how did Harvard univ get involved in the FOC project?

is it because chinese immigrants have had a long history in USa and then when CHinese market got opened in the 1970s ?

Thank you … for your good words.

There is nothing on a person in this thread but only discussion going on. … is a bright researcher and I know about his work via RG.

I intentionally attached here two articles that highlight the need of a national Flora.

There is indeed shortage of taxonomists capable of bringing out our Flora.

Flora of China is the brainchild of Dr. Peter Raven and Flora Malesiana was initiated in the Fifties by Dr. Van Steenis. Flora of India was initiated in 1978 by BSI and they were obviously inspired by Fl. Malesiana. While Fl. China was completed in record time, through partial revisions, Fl. Malesiana is taking generations because of the high standard monographic studies.

I feel that it is now high time to switch over to China model and bring out a workable Flora and then we can continue monographic studies including molecular phylogenetics.

Taxonomic research is partly based on literature and partly on herbarium material.

Previously it was very difficult to get access to classical literature as well as the specimens distributed to the European herbaria.

The Leiden herbarium had uploaded all their digitized specimens (including Utrecht) in their website about two years back and last month they uploaded all Volumes of Blumea including Blumea Supplements for free access.

In India, we have to depend on the library holdings for literature. Fortunately BHL (again thanks go to Missouri Botanic Garden) scanned most of the classical taxonomic literature and uploaded for free access.

With most of the European herbaria putting digital images of types in their websites or at least to JSTOR, it is now easy to carry out taxonomic research in Indian context with much confidence.

Within our country we have to visit various herbaria for consultation. Loan has been discontinued. Type specimens images available only on request.

With the advent of digital photography there is a resurgence in field photography and almost all publications are now bringing out excellent images of plants.

To conclude, a dedicated teamwork seems necessary to bring out a workable Flora with partial revisionary studies.

The Library at Indian Museum is now almost non-functional and going without any addition. However, the Library in the Central National Herbarium is possibly the best in India from taxonomic point of view.

Yes Peter Raven had an army of hard working mid westerners and californians on that project with some Chinese, and oodles and oodles of funding for infrastructure and office etc etc. Good that he did the world is that much richer for it.

Thanks everybody for very interesting discussions, particularly from our three stalwarts.

yes. it is called for?

Like this nice खटपट 😁however so imformative! By the way Nepal is way behin. Go vernment officials do no deliver the responsibility they are intrusted. Nepal supposed to publish 10 volumes of Flora of Nepal in support of RBGE but only one volume 3 is published so far !

You guys are quite lucky in this regard I guess.

we are all in the same boat as they say in the west… govt makes haste very slowly!!! go figure.

but to tell you the truth, … if you are making a very concerted valiant effort in numbers and range and soon you will have enough to start thinking of publishing your own findings such as “botanical finds of a citizen scientist ” or “walk with me” kind of series or some such.

and coming folks will refer to your books and build upon that. every bit counts

Well said, …

If we look at History, we find that it were the initiatives of some persons which held. In case of Nepal, it was Hiroshi Hara, who realized some similarities between floristic elements of Japan and East Himalayas, initiated extensive efforts and brought out the Flora of East Himalayas. For Pakistan, it was Prof. Nasir who invited experts for help in preparing Flora of West Pakistan. In Sri Lanka, Dr. Dassanayake delivered the job. As regards Bhutan, their Govt invited BSI for their Flora and BSI carried out a number of field trips and brought out Materials for the Flora of Bhutan but they never published any further. After a reasonable wait, the Govt of Bhutan invited the officials at Endiburgh Botanic Garden and finally Dr. Grierson and Dr. DG Long were the key persons who brought out Flora of Bhutan. In Bangladesh, some Botanists are showing interest now. Even a Chinese team has now initiated a Project on Flora of Myanmar. The people at Leiden have brought out Flora of Thailand as per request of Thai Govt.

In India, we need a dynamic stewardship to see through our Flora which can be achieved through integrated and co-ordinated efforts.

Thanks, … Some dynamic out of the world leadership is required to deliver such big projects.

First time a collaboration has started between India (BSI) and the Natural History Museum, London through positive initiative of MOEF & CC. Hope further collaboration with other Institutions will take place in near future to achieve the target.

It is really good to know that BSI is collaborating with Natural History Museum now.

Seems like there is going to be an end of the biggest hurdle this way.

No matter who started in China or Pakistan, the positive thing was, both government agreed to collaborate with scientists around the world to bring out the flora of their respective countries. In return (actually never heard of a big taxonomist’s name in current days from one neighbor) China does have lot of well trained expert botanists and taxonomists. Because they learnt from outsiders. I have friends in China with whom I am surprised by their knowledge on plants. And now Chinese are not at all dependent on outsiders any more, but yet they dont stop collaborating.

I am not saying India doesnt have good scientists or taxonomists, but I am saying India was not making good use of them. But such collaborations give a sense of optimism.

Thanks a lot for the good news …

for our website records, this thread shows the fruits of possibly pavetta from hong kong. was a travel photos so no chance of visiting the same plant when flowering. diagnosis is based on morphology of the leaves and the infered inflorescence shape etc and … experience with hong kong flora. is my summary correct, …

ps i made this summary because we meandered freely in this thread quite fruitfully, i may say. yet we do need a summary