Plants perennial, up to 2 m tall, leaves mostly entire or denticulate, not spiny margined, heads 3-5 cm across…………………..S. arvensis auct. non L. (now Sonchus wightianus DC.)
Plant annual, up to 1.5 m tall; leaves pinnately divided, margins spinulose, heads 1.5-2.5 cm across…………………..S. asper
As per efi thread : Perhaps no pair of species has been as confusing for me as distinction between Sonchus oleraceous and S. asper. This confusion has been more so once I started observing specimens in Delhi more closely. Classical distinction between the two species is commonly based on sharply spiny leaf margins and rounded basal auricles in S. asper and absence or spiny margins are very small spiny teeth and straight basal auricles in S. oleraceous.
While studying the specimens in my area critically I noticed that young specimens especially in early part of the season say in March-early April in Delhi the plants are with no obvious marginal spines and straight basal auricles with acute tips of lobes, but same plants towards the end of April have sharply spiny leaves, and some auricles are clearly rounded and some with straight acute auricles;
Asteraceae Fortnight Part 3-Ligulate heads (plus Misc.): Sonchus asper from Delhi-GS-31 : Attachments (4). 1 post by 1 author.
Sonchus id kalatope al150311:
Location Kalatope, Chamba district
– Sonchus asper
– Sochus asper, but one of those doubtful cases, after seeing your typical S. asper in another thread.
– Do we find any other varieties apart from S. asper and S. arvensis in India?
– S. oleraceous is the commonest of all
Sir, could this be the S. oleraceous.. I am sending a photo of the comparison of the two leaf bases.. the pointed one should be S. oleraceous according to Link
– My exerience of S. asper and S. oleraceous leads me to think that there is lot of intermixing. A plant which looks like S. oleraceous with no spines and straight auricles tends to have spines and some rounded auricles when mature. There are only two photographs (one mine from Delhi and One yours) which I have been able to confirm S. asper hundred per cent.
Date/Time- 11th March, 2012
Location- Place- Merrut, Uttar Pradesh
Plant Habit- Shrub/Herb
common name- Doodhi
Wild Plant for ID : Nasik : 041111 : AK-1:
Yellow flower seen.
A guess… is this Sonchus arvensis?
Sonchus asper, I hope
I agree with … on Sonchus asper.
ASTERACEAE Fortnight Part 3-Ligulate Heads: Sonchus asper from Uttarakhand_DSR_5 : Attachments (2). 1 post by 1 author.
What flowering plant?/ABDEC24 : 11 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (3).
This one was growing next to the Flax on the wall. It’s leaves are characteristic. If I am not mistaken it has a yellow dandelion like flower. Please advise.
Looks like the prickly lettuce
has milky sap that sticky
differentials include L. serriola and L. canadensis
close ups of the basal leaves, flattened stem if prickly or not and diameter of the flower after they open and the full plant in profile
would help you differentiate lactulas
if not lactula… best way to know is to see if the stem is hollow or not
Dandelions have hollow stems, as do the sonchus
sonchus sow thistle also have yellow flowers on branched stem, but the stem is hollow. Lactula does not..
if neither of these features
an eastern european weed
smooth basal leaves in description but pictures do not tally with some pic on the net
most descriptions are for “weed”s growing in fields or grassy lands
you have mountainous rocky terrain… may make for biological differences..
and a large tourist and immigrant population, gods only knows what they knowingly or unknowingly in their luggage, shoes etc carried in to Dharamshala over the decades..
if not them, then the caravans..
but a careful following of a key would help…
better than jumping to a conclusion…
heres a key to this difficulty…
read it then take more pictures… of several plants
if someone from an indian univeristy has studied this group they would know it in a jiffy.. and can tell us why they think what they say it is… that would make it simpler… but I did not find any names… but that’s not here nor there. Somebody in our membership will know the plant or a professor who knows..
Thank you … for such a detailed description. I will get to the plant tomorrow and check for the details you suggested.
Sonchus asper ?
Here we are … The yellow flower is roughly 1cm in diameter. There was a little white sap when I plucked the stem and the stem has thick walls and a little tunnel. A different plant had dandelion like wispy attachments. Where does this lead us?
B: stem hugging start of the leaf: sonchus
sometimes this phenomenon is called “ear like ”
or “complex auriculate” attachment of the leaf
C: red stem is sometimes shown in pictures of Sonchus asper.
stem hugging leaf : shown very well in tweo blogs that talk of weed in usa
Thank you … Your diagnosis and the first link leave no doubt that it is Sonchus asper.
… had given their opinion before but I was hoping they confirm the first tentative diagnosis after new pictures.
But no other replies so far.
The person in the first link considers it nutritional food while the one writing the second blog advises to get rid of it. I am inclined to support the first. What do you think?
Don’t eat it
If you want something more than the store bought bland lettuce, try this: sutton seeds sells seeds for salad greens including rocket/arugula (good detoxifier) … grow and eat them… I do , even in the balcony tubs..
Come to think of it…
you are in Dharamsala … a wild mix of Tibetan herbalists and European or American folks who may know and run classes … if there are some serious people who really know .. and see if they run good classes …..
I know we all like when experts tall us we made a right choice…
Asteraceae Week (Part III – Ligulate heads) :: For ID :: Sonchus ¿ asper ? at Maval :: 27 JUN 10 07:23 :: DV04 : 3 images. 3 posts by 2 authors.
Place, Altitude: Girivan, Maval (about 2470 ft asl)
efi page on Sonchus asper
Asteraceae Fortnight Part 3-Ligulate Heads: Sonchus asper for validation from Kaithal-NS 23 : Attachments (6). 4 posts by 3 authors.
As per BSI –
identification no170111sn1: date/time:jan11
Sonchus asper a weed in Kolkata
SK707 11 AUG-2017:ID : 4 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (7)
Location: Kathmandu, Nepal
Date: 5 August 2017
Altitude: 4500 ft.
Sonchus asper (L.) Hill ???
May be as per images at Sonchus asper
I guess so.
The enigma of Sonchus oleraceous vs. S. asper:
Thistle from Kalatope id al170411:
Perhaps the first undisputed Sonchus asper I have seen. I hope I am not wrong.
Asteraceae for ID : Bangalore : 18OCT20 : AK-28 : 3 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (4)
Sonchus asper (L.) Hill ??
Thanks … Does look like the suggested id.
Asteraceae for ID : Bangalore : 29SEP20 : AK-26 : 8 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (2)
Close to S. oleraceus
Agree with …
Sorry, earlier I gave a wrong id.
I think it should be Sonchus wightianus DC. as per comparative images at Sonchus
This looks more closer to Sonchus oleraceus as suggested by … and supported by …
Can we recheck?
Pl. post high resolution images.
I think more close to Sonchus asper (L.) Hill with spiny teeths.
I guess you are right …
I think all this confusion is because the leaves are not in focus, i cant discern the leaf margin with any great confidence.
i am sure … had the same concern. Cant see the original image that was posted on 22nd October 2020. where is it?
still the basal auricle shape is visible in first picture:
it is rounded
and i can extrapolate from the fuzzy margins that they are most likely prickly.
see the pictures in this illustration from a paper titled:
” Sow Thistle Chloroplast Genomes: Insights into the Plastome Evolution and Relationship of Two Weedy Species, Sonchus asper and Sonchus oleraceus (Asteraceae)
the picture link is not working on google today
you have to copy and paste the following in google or search engine:
1: Must have pictures in focus
2: try to touch the leaves, see if they are rough or smooth and it the edges are prickly.
this plant used to be used as salad or pot herb by early settlers to north america, they brought the seeds over from europe.
so its safe to touch.it still is eaten on the trails.
3: i think its Sonchus asper.
SK661 20 JUL-2017:ID : 5 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (4)
Location: Kagbeni, Mustang, Nepal
Date: 9 April 2017
Altitude: 10000 ft.
Again no flowers yet !
Pl. try to check comparative images at Cichorieae under Asteraceae.
Pl. check with images at Sonchus asper (L.) Hill
SK606 01 JUL-2017:ID : 5 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (2)
Location: Chaile, Mustang, Nepal
Date: 9 April 2017
Altitude: 10500 ft.
Possible for ID ?
Pl. check at comparative images at Cichorieae, if it is of any help.
I think yes S. asper
Sonchus asper: 3 high res. images.
Leaves possess spines at the edges.
Stem oozes whitish milky viscous fluid when cut.
Always post the habit picture, foliage etc. for proper ID.
Sonchus asper from Brampton Canada-GS22112022-2: 4 very high res. images.
Is it Sonchus asper ?: 2 IMAGES.
I guess the ID is correct !
Agree with … sir… Yes it is Sonchus asper
Please identify id place Kota Rajasthan: 1 high res. image.
Sonchus oleraceus L.
I think more closer to